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Administrator
Originally Posted by
LionHeart
The context of these verses is the realm of prayer. When we intercede with the Spirit's help we will pray out the good will of God into our situations. Without looking at the context of prayer in these verses, we are throwing the dice in the air and hoping it's God's will to make a good thing happen out of a mess. That is not at all what is meant here. That is more like a Buddhist kind of fate teaching. 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Originally Posted by
LionHeart
In other words, all things work together for good to them that love God and pray with the Spirit's help in intercession! With the Spirit's help the will of God will come into the situation.
Exactly!
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
LionHeart
The context of these verses is the realm of prayer. When we intercede with the Spirit's help we will pray out the good will of God into our situations. Without looking at the context of prayer in these verses, we are throwing the dice in the air and hoping it's God's will to make a good thing happen out of a mess. That is not at all what is meant here. That is more like a Buddhist kind of fate teaching. 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
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Frozen Chosen
Originally Posted by
LionHeart
In other words, all things work together for good to them that love God and pray with the Spirit's help in intercession! With the Spirit's help the will of God will come into the situation.
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Administrator
The word 'helpeth' in that verse is an interesting word in the Greek. It is 'sunantilambanomai' (I think I spelled that right), a compound word made up of 3 Greek words that literally translates, 'take hold of-together with-against' (sun-'with'; anti-'against' [as in anti-Christ]; lambanomai-'take hold of/lay hold of'). So the Holy Spirit "takes hold with us againt" our infirmities/weaknesses. We dont' take hold of them by ourselves. And He does this by us yielding to Him and allowing Him to make intercession FOR us THROUGH us.
I also think it's interesting to note that this ministry of the Holy Spirit in our behalf is activated through PRAYER. "The Spirit Himself makes intercession through us with groanings which cannot be uttered". This is how important this kind of prayer is. Since we don't know WHAT we should pray for as we ought, we yield to the Spirit and He intercedes for us through us according to the perfect will of God, and then that perfect will is answered, causing those things to work together for our good.
Think about it. In one sense this is saying the greatest weakness in our lives, our greatest infirmity, is that we don't know WHAT to pray for. We are an eternal, immortal, Spirit-filled spirit with the life and power of God, but we are separated from His wisdom and knowledge of every situation in life by this veil of flesh, this fallen flesh which limits our knowledge of WHAT to pray for. But when we yield to the Holy Spirit, it's literally like shedding our limitation, shedding our flesh, and the instant we yield to the Holy Spirit we are praying with the full knowledge and wisdom of God about our situation apart from our own understanding (those of you that believe this is a reference to tongues).
Of course that can also include Spirit inspired prayer in our known language also. But this verse specifically mentions 'groanings', intercession beyond our own known language.
As Lionheart said, without the context of prayer... The whole context is prayer for all things to work together for our good. One could even actually say that what Paul is saying is not that the Spirit causes all things to work together for our good, but that the 'all things' that work together for our good is the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our yielding to Him in intercession. Those are the 'all things' that work together for our good, the things He just mentioned. But it's OK to believe it the other way too. :)
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Frozen Chosen
Originally Posted by
fuego
The word 'helpeth' in that verse is an interesting word in the Greek. It is 'sunantilambanomai' (I think I spelled that right), a compound word made up of 3 Greek words that literally translates, 'take hold of-together with-against' (sun-'with'; anti-'against' [as in anti-Christ]; lambanomai-'take hold of/lay hold of'). So the Holy Spirit "takes hold with us againt" our infirmities/weaknesses. We dont' take hold of them by ourselves. And He does this by us yielding to Him and allowing Him to make intercession FOR us THROUGH us.
I also think it's interesting to note that this ministry of the Holy Spirit in our behalf is activated through PRAYER. "The Spirit Himself makes intercession through us with groanings which cannot be uttered". This is how important this kind of prayer is. Since we don't know WHAT we should pray for as we ought, we yield to the Spirit and He intercedes for us through us according to the perfect will of God, and then that perfect will is answered, causing those things to work together for our good.
Think about it. In one sense this is saying the greatest weakness in our lives, our greatest infirmity, is that we don't know WHAT to pray for. We are an eternal, immortal, Spirit-filled with spirit with the life and power of God, but we are separated from His wisdom and knowledge of every situation in life by this veil of flesh, this fallen flesh which limits our knowledge of WHAT to pray for. But when we yield to the Holy Spirit, it's literally like shedding our limitation, shedding our flesh, and the instant we yield to the Holy Spirit we are praying with the full knowledge and wisdom of God about our situation apart from our own understanding (those of you that believe this is a reference to tongues).
Of course that can also include Spirit inspired prayer in our known language also. But this verse specifically mentions 'groanings', intercession beyond our own known language.
As Lionheart said, without the context of prayer... The whole context is prayer for all things to work together for our good. One could even actually say that what Paul is saying is not that the Spirit causes all things to work together for our good, but that the 'all things' that work together for our good is the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our yielding to Him in intercession. Those are the 'all things' that work together for our good, the things He just mentioned. But it's OK to believe it the other way too. :)
Love it when you kick into teaching mode.
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Administrator
Originally Posted by
A.J.
Love it when you kick into teaching mode.
Thanks. :)
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Originally Posted by
fuego
The word 'helpeth' in that verse is an interesting word in the Greek. It is 'sunantilambanomai' (I think I spelled that right), a compound word made up of 3 Greek words that literally translates, 'take hold of-together with-against' (sun-'with'; anti-'against' [as in anti-Christ]; lambanomai-'take hold of/lay hold of'). So the Holy Spirit "takes hold with us againt" our infirmities/weaknesses. We dont' take hold of them by ourselves. And He does this by us yielding to Him and allowing Him to make intercession FOR us THROUGH us.
I also think it's interesting to note that this ministry of the Holy Spirit in our behalf is activated through PRAYER. "The Spirit Himself makes intercession through us with groanings which cannot be uttered". This is how important this kind of prayer is. Since we don't know WHAT we should pray for as we ought, we yield to the Spirit and He intercedes for us through us according to the perfect will of God, and then that perfect will is answered, causing those things to work together for our good.
Think about it. In one sense this is saying the greatest weakness in our lives, our greatest infirmity, is that we don't know WHAT to pray for. We are an eternal, immortal, Spirit-filled spirit with the life and power of God, but we are separated from His wisdom and knowledge of every situation in life by this veil of flesh, this fallen flesh which limits our knowledge of WHAT to pray for. But when we yield to the Holy Spirit, it's literally like shedding our limitation, shedding our flesh, and the instant we yield to the Holy Spirit we are praying with the full knowledge and wisdom of God about our situation apart from our own understanding (those of you that believe this is a reference to tongues).
Of course that can also include Spirit inspired prayer in our known language also. But this verse specifically mentions 'groanings', intercession beyond our own known language.
As Lionheart said, without the context of prayer... The whole context is prayer for all things to work together for our good. One could even actually say that what Paul is saying is not that the Spirit causes all things to work together for our good, but that the 'all things' that work together for our good is the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our yielding to Him in intercession. Those are the 'all things' that work together for our good, the things He just mentioned. But it's OK to believe it the other way too. :)
Here is an example from Philippians 1:18 Yes, I will continue to be happy 19 for another reason. I know that I will be set free through your prayers and through the help that comes from the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Paul was not saying all things work for his good. He tells them to pray, and that prayer will get him out of jail !Prayer releases the purposes of God into the Earth.
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Administrator
Originally Posted by
LionHeart
Here is an example from Philippians 1:18 Yes, I will continue to be happy 19 for another reason. I know that I will be set free through your prayers and through the help that comes from the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Paul was not saying all things work for his good. He tells them to pray, and that prayer will get him out of jail !Prayer releases the purposes of God into the Earth.
I don't think I've ever read that in another version. Good stuff!
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Administrator
My wife has had me listening to a Keith Moore CD titled "Is God in Control". Loved it. Keith Moore is hitting that teaching hard. Gave me the boldness to keep preaching my series titled "Does God Engage in DESTRUCTIVE Behavior."
Also, went to see a member of our congregation today whose son died. The very thing I expected was said to him in my presence by one of his family members: "God saw fit to take him so that he won't suffer anymore." While neither he nor I responded to the well intended statement (times of grief are not times for a theological debate) I was glad that I had taught him and others the truth long. It does not stop the pain of having lost a child but I think the pain would be increased if he felt God was behind it.
The only thing I did mention to the family (in a sad way, not with condemnation) was that I wished they had informed me of how sick the boy was so that we could have had the church pray, to which they agreed that this should have been done.
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