Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 69

Thread: John 14:15

  1. #1
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Jerusalem, Israel
    Posts
    563
    Thanked: 647

    John 14:15

    If you love me keep my commandments.
    It seems that Jesus thought there were commandments for believers and followers.
    He commanded many things that are recorded in the New Testament.
    As a recognized Rabbi, was He also referring to the Old Testament? (He wrote that too didn't He?)
    It's all about love and He doesn't seem to be making this a discussion about salvation.
    I know we have people in this forum that believe that Jesus cancelled every commandment recorded in the Old Testament. How do you deal with this and other passages like this? It is only fair to add that my position is that there is only one Bible and every page meshes perfectly with the rest. I am willing to have a discussion. Please be nice to each other in the process. (I really wish I didn't feel the need to say that.)

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Tehilah Ba'Aretz For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (07-26-2022), Joy (07-25-2022), njtom (09-01-2022)

  3. #2
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Everett, Washington
    Posts
    1,629
    Thanked: 1786
    Blog Entries
    1
    Exodus 19:5

    Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is mine.

    Hebrews 5:9

    And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

    The issue comes down to obeying what He says to do whether it's in the OT or NT. His commandments don't change because God does not change (Mal 3:6).

    As a matter of fact, adultery in the OT was a physical sexual act of betrayal to the spouse.

    The NT holds the same truth but in a stricter fashion. You just have to "lust in your heart" towards another woman to commit the same sin (Mt 5:27-28).

    If you really think about it, the issue is being obedient to the whole counsel of God throughout the entirety of the Bible.

    Tehilah, mentioned the commandments of God. It doesn't take a scholar to understand that much of what was commanded in the OT can be found weaved throughout the NT. Again, are you obeying the Scriptures or not? Are you doing what Jesus said to do or not?
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Smitty For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (07-26-2022)

  5. #3
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    I know we have people in this forum that believe that Jesus cancelled every commandment recorded in the Old Testament.
    From memory I can't recall anyone saying every OT commandment was cancelled by Jesus - maybe at one time someone did
    My assumption would be that most believe the ceremonial commandments were cancelled including restrictions on eating certain foods and circumcision.

    There are excessive 'grace' ministers and believers who don't value the OT but not on this forum - if I'm wrong can those people identify themselves

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Cardinal TT For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (07-26-2022)

  7. #4
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,824
    Thanked: 7519
    Please be nice to each other in the process. (I really wish I didn't feel the need to say that.)
    So I'll ask everyone to be nice while prefacing the topic with a not very nice accusation.

    I know we have people in this forum that believe that Jesus cancelled every commandment recorded in the Old Testament.
    Are you sure you have the right forum?

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (07-26-2022)

  9. #5
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    In regard to the topic and since I am currently reading the book of Joshua

    A major command was that God expected the Israelites to kill every man, woman and child when they entered Canaan.
    It was a very clear command and something God wanted them to obey implicitly. I do not judge God or Israel as that was the Almighty speaking out of perfect wisdom and truth.

    But it is quite clear when Jesus came he cancelled all such commands to kill all men, women and children.
    I know I picked an extreme topic but as I said I am reading Joshua and its right in my face.

    God considered Canaanites to be his enemies
    Joshua 10:19 - And do not stay there yourselves, but pursue your enemies, and attack their rear guard. Do not allow them to enter their cities, for the LORD your God has delivered them into your hand

    Jesus now addresses our enemies:
    Mat 5:43 - "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
    Mat 5:44 - But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Cardinal TT For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (07-26-2022)

  11. #6
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Jerusalem, Israel
    Posts
    563
    Thanked: 647
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    So I'll ask everyone to be nice while prefacing the topic with a not very nice accusation.



    Are you sure you have the right forum?
    Yes, I am sure that I am addressing people who have openly embraced the idea that we are not allowed to promote OT commandments because that would be the work of Judiasars. Actually, I wish we could get past that and discuss what is actually written. Including the use of the original languages. The NT addresses the subject of people who wanted new believers to become Jewish and did not understand that non-Jews could be saved. Can we talk about what really happened there?
    (And I don't appreciate the suggestion that I am delusional.)

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Tehilah Ba'Aretz For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (09-08-2022)

  13. #7
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,271
    Thanked: 14129
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    In regard to the topic and since I am currently reading the book of Joshua

  14. #8
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Jerusalem, Israel
    Posts
    563
    Thanked: 647
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Jesus now addresses our enemies:
    Mat 5:43 - "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
    Mat 5:44 - But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
    I love that quote!
    My father was a WWII Vet. He went to France where he drove ambulance... without a gun. He was 7th day Adventist and a Conscientious Objector.
    Are you suggesting that the United States was founded against God's will by the use of force and that everyone should immediately accept all forms of violence against themselves personally? Are we allowed to protect our families and friends from evil people? I don't think that was your intention, was it?
    There must be something missing in this picture.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Tehilah Ba'Aretz For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (09-08-2022)

  16. #9
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    I love that quote!
    My father was a WWII Vet. He went to France where he drove ambulance... without a gun. He was 7th day Adventist and a Conscientious Objector.
    Are you suggesting that the United States was founded against God's will by the use of force and that everyone should immediately accept all forms of violence against themselves personally? Are we allowed to protect our families and friends from evil people? I don't think that was your intention, was it?
    There must be something missing in this picture.

    I believe God permits people to go to war in certain circumstances and also protect ourselves against invasion. WW2 was a valid reason to go to war.

    I was referring to the specific commandments where God told Joshua to kill every man, woman and child.
    There are sadly casualties of civilians, women and children due to the consequences of war but I don't believe that specific commandment to Joshua applies today under the NT.

    My understanding is that there are many OT commandments which are still valid to NT believers but there are other commandments that are no longer valid.
    I believe the 10 commandments are still valid for NT believers.

    How do you see the commandment of women being unclean after menstruating and having to isolate?

  17. #10
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Jerusalem, Israel
    Posts
    563
    Thanked: 647
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    How do you see the commandment of women being unclean after menstruating and having to isolate?
    Interesting choice since Orthodox Jews hold that one is still valid.
    First, there are a lot of commandments that are not currently valid. Obviously, the commandments concerning worship as connected to the Temple cannot be kept since there is no Temple at this time. The Rabbinic interpretation is that our prayers become a sanctuary of God's presence and fulfil the Temple commandments.
    But about dirty women...
    It seems that the rules of "Family Purity" are designed to promote pregnancy and large families. The timing is curiously accurate. Was that the divine intention of this set of rules? Probably. Are the rules still valid? And that leads me back to my original premise where Jesus said that it was all about love. I may be stretching a bit but I would contend that if these things are done for any reason other than the love of God, they have no eternal value. I'll go a bit further. These rules are not about salvation and will not produce salvation no matter how faithful nor how devoted the person may be. Salvation comes by grace, through faith, in the finished work of Jesus on the cross. No second choices. Not before the first century, not in the present and not in the future. There has only ever been one way of salvation.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Has your Subaru Impreza warranty expired? Get a fast online quote from CarWarrantyUS today. Enjoy the open road and leave the repairs to us.