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Thread: John 14:15

  1. #21
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Personally I felt like God told me to eat according to the rules written in the Bible (not the rabbinic interpretation of those teachings.) I have done that for the last 30 years or so and have not suffered from it. Yes, I know, I don't eat bacon or ham or shrimps and that would be a huge thing to many Christians. I'll just wait for God to sort that one else because my wife loves bacon and I love her.
    I don't have a problem if people want to observe those laws from a personal perspective. We all agree its not a salvation issue.
    The concern is that there are some (not you) trying to make it binding on all believers that God expects us to follow Torah laws. They also believe keeping Torah especially pleases God and gives them a privileged position.

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    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Back to the OP. The context of that passage is Jesus telling His disciples that they can do great things with His authority. Could it be that keeping His commandments is a condition required to see great works in His name? It looks to me like He intentionally connects love for Him, keeping His commandments and doing great works in His name.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Back to the OP. The context of that passage is Jesus telling His disciples that they can do great things with His authority. Could it be that keeping His commandments is a condition required to see great works in His name? It looks to me like He intentionally connects love for Him, keeping His commandments and doing great works in His name.

    Apostle Paul answered that question

    Gal 3:5 - Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

  5. #24
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Back to the OP. The context of that passage is Jesus telling His disciples that they can do great things with His authority. Could it be that keeping His commandments is a condition required to see great works in His name? It looks to me like He intentionally connects love for Him, keeping His commandments and doing great works in His name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Apostle Paul answered that question

    Gal 3:5 - Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    Well I don't think Jesus is talking about the 10 Commandments in John 14:15 ('the works of the law' from Gal. 5:3). Those were already commands from the Torah. That's not what He personally commanded them. He was talking about the things He was telling them throughout His ministry, and the things He would tell them to do after He was gone through the Holy Spirit. If we love Him, we will keep His commandments, i.e., do what He tells us to do and what He leads us to do. And I think that is directly related to seeing the great works, especially when He is commanding us to do something where someone is concerned that has to do with ministering healing to them. So I definitely agree with TBA in context with what I have said here, although I don't know how TBA interprets 'commandments' in that verse.
    '
    In my Bible I actually have written by John 17:6 ('...and they have kept Your Word.') "Not the OT but the LIVING Word.' What HE personally told them. This is what I believe Jesus is talking about when He is talking about keeping His commandments.

    I think a good example of what I am talking about is the rich young ruler. He was setting Him up for the living Word by asking him about the ten commandments. But the LIVING WORD is standing right before him, commanding him what to do in real time so to speak that would cause him to prosper in God's will for his life. Equivalent to us being led by the Spirit today. Of course he didn't obey the 'commandment' and walked away sorrowful and missed the blessings that God had for him.

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    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Thank you fuego. Yes, I can see that you and I have different definitions of the word commandments. It seems like you are not in agreement that Jesus and the Father are one. But I don't think you would ever agree to that statement. This confuses me. In my thinking, if Jesus and the Father are one then Jesus is the author of the OT and the giver of the commandments recorded by Moses. I am trying to figure out if and how those facts can be integrated. God did not change! It seems to me that the big difference between the books of Moses and the books of the Apostles is the revelation given to each. That is, not the substance of God's will but instead the understanding of grace and faith. I'm looking for the substance of grace and faith. Does Jesus' declaration that doing His commandments is evidence of love for Him have anything to do with faith and grace? And if so, is this a key to miracles of healing and power?

  8. #26
    Discussion centered around the seeming difference between the Old and New Testament, especially where it pertains to certain obscure things, are resolve very easily by remembering the following:

    1. The Bible is a PROGRESSIVE REVELATION! Men could not receive all of the truth about God or His ways because they were hardened in sin and needed a new birth. This would only come through Jesus.
    2. God ACCOMMODATED fallen men's fallen state until Jesus came to bring them back to God's original intent.

    In Matt. 19 Jesus explains that the reason for "easy divorce" in the Old Testament was because God accommodated their fallen state. Jesus came to show them that the proper way is to work through marriage difficulties.

    You can apply this to laws of slavery, war, etc. These were accommodations due to hardness of heart. Heck, there was very little even said about Satan during that time since the people were so prone to idolatry that they may have started worshipping him if he had too much exposure. It is only when men could handle that there was an opposing force against God that Satan could be revealed without us worshipping him as a separate deity. It is also the reason why God took responsibility for a lot of the things that Satan did (2 Sam. 24:1; 1 Chron. 21:1; Job 1-2).

    The NEW TESTAMENT is simply part of a progressive restoration to God's original plan for man.
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