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Thread: John 14:15

  1. #11
    Senior Member Valiant Woman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    If you love me keep my commandments.
    It seems that Jesus thought there were commandments for believers and followers.
    He commanded many things that are recorded in the New Testament.
    As a recognized Rabbi, was He also referring to the Old Testament? (He wrote that too didn't He?)
    It's all about love and He doesn't seem to be making this a discussion about salvation.
    I know we have people in this forum that believe that Jesus cancelled every commandment recorded in the Old Testament. How do you deal with this and other passages like this? It is only fair to add that my position is that there is only one Bible and every page meshes perfectly with the rest. I am willing to have a discussion. Please be nice to each other in the process. (I really wish I didn't feel the need to say that.)
    No one here believes Jesus cancelled every commandment in the OT since He Himself said He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to "fulfill." (Matthew 5:17) He fulfilled it after His death, burial, and resurrection. He gave us two "new commandments".

    Love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love our neighbor as ourselves. "On these two commandments hang ALL the Law and the prophets." Matthew 22:37

    It's not complicated. God showed us that we couldn't keep the Law, that's why we need Christ.
    When your praise match your prayers, the answer will come.
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  3. #12
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Woman View Post
    He gave us two "new commandments".

    Love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love our neighbor as ourselves. "On these two commandments hang ALL the Law and the prophets." Matthew 22:37

    It's not complicated. God showed us that we couldn't keep the Law, that's why we need Christ.
    Let's take another look at Matthew 22:37. Most scholars agree that this is the same story as Mark 12:29. Mark, who is usually more compact in his storytelling, adds details that may be important. He starts with a quote from Deuteronomy which seems to actually be the answer with examples. Hear O Israel! The Lord our God is ONE LORD. You see, the word, "hear" is an interesting Hebrew word. It means far more than hear. It is translated, "obey" in the Old Testament. In other words, "Pay attention and do."
    As for keeping the LAW, both Nicodemus and Paul testified that they did indeed keep all of the commandments. But salvation never did come from keeping all of the commandments. It was always about having faith in God.
    Don't forget the theology of the TRINITY. Jesus is God and He always has been God. When Moses was a friend of God, he was a friend of Jesus. Moses didn't know the name Jesus though. Instead, he knew that actual name of God that has been lost to us. The name above every other name. The name given to Jesus so that at the mention of the name every knee will bow. Moses knew Jesus by that name.

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  5. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Interesting choice since Orthodox Jews hold that one is still valid.
    First, there are a lot of commandments that are not currently valid. Obviously, the commandments concerning worship as connected to the Temple cannot be kept since there is no Temple at this time. The Rabbinic interpretation is that our prayers become a sanctuary of God's presence and fulfil the Temple commandments.
    But about dirty women...
    It seems that the rules of "Family Purity" are designed to promote pregnancy and large families. The timing is curiously accurate. Was that the divine intention of this set of rules? Probably. Are the rules still valid? And that leads me back to my original premise where Jesus said that it was all about love. I may be stretching a bit but I would contend that if these things are done for any reason other than the love of God, they have no eternal value. I'll go a bit further. These rules are not about salvation and will not produce salvation no matter how faithful nor how devoted the person may be. Salvation comes by grace, through faith, in the finished work of Jesus on the cross. No second choices. Not before the first century, not in the present and not in the future. There has only ever been one way of salvation.
    Seems like everyone takes offense with the laws concerning women. Leviticus 15 is about bodily discharges of men and women. I've been listening to The Daily Audio Bible/Brian Hardin and going through Leviticus. Brian has a different take on it than I've heard before. He labels these discharges as biohazards and believes that the rules concerning them keep more than a million Israelites healthy in the wilderness. All discharges from men and women are not benign and separation from the group can be seen as a preventative. It's not only about women.

    Please note that I do note believe this is valid today.

  6. #14
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrie View Post
    Please note that I do note believe this is valid today.
    Well, that might be a problem. It gets very dangerous when anyone decides part of the Bible isn't valid. While it is true that the diseases that were common thousands of years ago are no longer a problem, the intent of God's Holy Spirit when giving the scripture has not changed. I am not saying that I understand exactly what God's intention was but rather that I lack a full understanding of His intent. Jewish families often have a high birth rate, in part because of the teaching in Scripture about purification from any discharge. The timing makes it much more likely. Was that His intent? I simply don't know. Maybe God just really likes kids.

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  8. #15
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Well, that might be a problem. It gets very dangerous when anyone decides part of the Bible isn't valid.

    Are you saying that every OT command is valid and must be performed today to please God (ignore the salvation aspect)?

    If a gentile christian believer eats shellfish is that a sin or error that displeases God?
    If a Messianic Jew eats shellfish ....as above
    If a secular Jew eats shellfish ...as above
    If a orthodox Jew eats shellfish...as above

  9. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Well, that might be a problem. It gets very dangerous when anyone decides part of the Bible isn't valid.
    You're right.. I probably should have used a different word.. I think that these things are no longer binding, no longer required.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Maybe God just really likes kids.
    Jesus does for sure!

  10. #17
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    In my opinion, Salvation is by faith, not works. The "Law" never was the way to salvation and never will be. It has always been by faith and that in the not yet revealed sacrifice of Messiah on the cross. You have to know that was not simple for Abraham. Blind faith! So, no, I do not think these things have anything to do with salvation other than to reveal the things God loves and hates as well as the way He chooses to behave. I do sort of like the idea of attempting to copy Him but I do not associate that with salvation at all.
    God never changes and never will change. And Jesus always was God and God and Jesus are one. (That point really is a problem for the Replacement people.)

  11. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    In my opinion, Salvation is by faith, not works. The "Law" never was the way to salvation and never will be. It has always been by faith and that in the not yet revealed sacrifice of Messiah on the cross. You have to know that was not simple for Abraham. Blind faith! So, no, I do not think these things have anything to do with salvation other than to reveal the things God loves and hates as well as the way He chooses to behave. I do sort of like the idea of attempting to copy Him but I do not associate that with salvation at all.
    God never changes and never will change. And Jesus always was God and God and Jesus are one. (That point really is a problem for the Replacement people.)
    How are the "works" that people perform related to their faith?

  12. #19
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Since the Bible tells us that faith without works is dead I do see a connection. My Jewish friends have said, "Don't tell me what you believe. I will follow you around for a week or two and I'll tell you what you believe." One man also said, "If you are not doing it, what do I care what you believe?" How do people act that out? Some go to Church on Sunday. (My dad's family are Sabbath keepers.) Some do good deeds like feeding the poor or volunteering to help wherever needed. Yet others attempt to imitate God by following the teachings of Moses, Jesus and Paul. Each one is responsible for what they receive from God and how they respond to God's instruction to them. Personally I felt like God told me to eat according to the rules written in the Bible (not the rabbinic interpretation of those teachings.) I have done that for the last 30 years or so and have not suffered from it. Yes, I know, I don't eat bacon or ham or shrimps and that would be a huge thing to many Christians. I'll just wait for God to sort that one else because my wife loves bacon and I love her.

  13. #20
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
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