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Thread: Why so few miracles?

  1. #11
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Boldness and faith are directly related. That's the key.

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  3. #12
    Senior Member Joy's Avatar
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    Bookman, were you going to tell us why we don't see more miracles these days? Surely you have some more wisdom in this. Let's have it.

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  5. #13
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    If one lacks holiness, one also lacks faith. The two are inseparably linked.
    We are holy through Him, our works as filthy rags. I'm not not knocking sanctification, coming out from them, from the world, separating but have to be cautious that we don't veer into works.

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  7. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    We are holy through Him, our works as filthy rags. I'm not not knocking sanctification, coming out from them, from the world, separating but have to be cautious that we don't veer into works.
    The only works I may even give a hint toward is what you forsake to enter in. What you sacrifice to gain in Him. It takes effort to draw closer and if one is not or has not done that...they are missing out on much more than miracles, they are missing out on encounters.

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  9. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I can't agree with that. My example of the old timers during the healing movement. A person could be very flawed and still have great faith. Peter himself said it was not related to holiness at all.

    Anybody in this thread don't think they're particularly holy or sanctified? Then what's the problem? :)
    Holiness is essential to the Christian life. It's not an add-on. Without holiness, no man shall see God (Hebrews 12:14). Was Paul pleased with the carnality of the Corinthian church? No, he was not. Sin was called out. Sanctification was called for. To say a person can be used of God while sinful or worldly is hardly a recommendation for it. I'm not suggesting faith isn't also key to healing, but I've found that sin and worldliness tend to undermine faith. Holiness, on the other hand, enhances faith.

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  11. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Bookman, were you going to tell us why we don't see more miracles these days? Surely you have some more wisdom in this. Let's have it.
    As I mention in my reply to Fuego, faith is certainly important in healing, but I've noticed that sin and worldliness have a corrosive effect on sin. There will be those who performed miracles but "never knew" Christ. It's very dangerous to fall under the influence of the world. It does tend to undermine faith.

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  13. #17
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    Holiness is essential to the Christian life. It's not an add-on. Without holiness, no man shall see God (Hebrews 12:14). Was Paul pleased with the carnality of the Corinthian church? No, he was not. Sin was called out. Sanctification was called for. To say a person can be used of God while sinful or worldly is hardly a recommendation for it. I'm not suggesting faith isn't also key to healing, but I've found that sin and worldliness tend to undermine faith. Holiness, on the other hand, enhances faith.
    You're addressing stuff that wasn't said. Nobody said holiness wasn't essential. It's just not essential for 'miracles'. You need to study the healing move ofo the 50s. There is a book out called 'All Things Are Possible' which I got as a textbook at Rhema in '79. The guy could have even been more harsh about the lives of some of the healing ministers. They gave us that book so we could see that and not follow in their footsteps as far as lifestyle.

    Holiness is protection from the enemy (the prince of this world has come and found nothing in me) when walking in power. You continue in sin while walking in that kind of power, then eventually the devil will pretty much destroy your ministry and maybe you. That book showed that.

    It's interesting you brought up the Corinthian church to support what you're saying about holiness (and I agree) but in light of miracles you just proved my point. Corinthians was the most carnal church he dealt with. Yet at the same time they proliferated in the gifts. The most immature church as he called them proliferating in the gifts. So the church that was so carnal he had to address it, also operated more in the gifts more than any other church and he had to address them about order concerning it. Go figure.

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  15. #18
    Cos Tithers are Few

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  17. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Cos Tithers are Few

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  19. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I can't agree with that. My example of the old timers during the healing movement. A person could be very flawed and still have great faith. Peter himself said it was not related to holiness at all.

    Anybody in this thread don't think they're particularly holy or sanctified? Then what's the problem? :)
    Perhaps I should amend to say that FOR ME, sin or worldliness is corrosive to faith. Almost by definition, if a person looks to the world with envy and desire, they're not going to go to God for their needs, including healing or any other provision. Part of my alarm is that I'm afraid when we face the hard times ahead for believers, many who have counted on the world won't have the ability to forsake it and see themselves as set apart for God, and relying on His provision, rather than the world's.

    I consider these verses from Matthew 7 a dire warning to those who do perform miracles (including healing) but do not pursue holiness, preferring lawlessness.

    21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

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