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Thread: Is Tithing a New Testament Command? Michael Brown

  1. #101
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Everything to you sounds judgmental ... you are really beginning to sound like the hyper-grace crowd .wanting to be babied and cuddled all the time
    no i am not mad in the least , actually enjoying myself really .

    Paricularly intrigued by you though . Claiming to be indifferent as to whether or not people choose to tithe on one hand but increasingly revealing an anti-tithe bias with each post .

    I have stayed out of this topic and only came in later because imo you started to come across judgmental....you can disagree with my analysis but that's how it looked.

    You have said some good things but I still believe it's up to the conscience of the believer to judge the Word and the Spirit's leading about tithing/giving.

    Paul said to do everything by faith and if people tithe in faith then good for them but also if people believe they are to give in faith then I respect that.

    The most hurtful thing you said was that I sounded like the hyper grace crowd

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  3. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    I have stayed out of this topic and only came in later because imo you started to come across judgmental....you can disagree with my analysis but that's how it looked.

    You have said some good things but I still believe it's up to the conscience of the believer to judge the Word and the Spirit's leading about tithing/giving.

    Paul said to do everything by faith and if people tithe in faith then good for them but also if people believe they are to give in faith then I respect that.

    The most hurtful thing you said was that I sounded like the hyper grace crowd
    Well you call me Judgemental I call you hyper grace .. guess we are even :)

    In truth you entered the debate when myself and zeke were going back and forth over water baptism so I am Not sure how You could have extracted "increasingly Judgemental"out of that .:) thus requiring your intervention

    In any case Your second and Third Paragraphs I am perfectly in agreement with but it's your side of the debate that really doesn't seem to believe that . .

    They are constantly attacking pastors wof in particular who teach tithing claiming they are being legalistic and then throwing me
    In with those pastors .

    Clearly they don't believe in live and let live on the tithing issue . And you yourself probably don't either despite your proclamations because you endorsed a number of such posts .

    I on other have said over and over that tithing is not compulsory . It's for those who have the faith and maturity for it and I would also add Called to it.

    Anyway it's clear this debate has pretty muc run its course . .. no ?

    Much Love

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  5. #103
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Yes it's run it's course...God bless everyone tither or giver

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  7. #104
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Zeke Zik ...
    Not everyone was called to preach the Gospel like Paul was so No not every one is "WOED" for failing to preach like Paul ..

    In fact Scripture teaches the opposite ...



    So What were you saying again again about Maturity and Sticking to the Scriptures within Context ? ?
    Better re-read the parable of the talents brother. It is talking about discipleship. And yes, Paul was probably one with the 10 talents, but each of us are at the very least the one with one talent. You cannot be a real disciple of Jesus without making disciples. The great commission is for all of us.

  8. #105
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Zeke Zik ...
    Not everyone was called to preach the Gospel like Paul was so No not every one is "WOED" for failing to preach like Paul ..

    In fact Scripture teaches the opposite ...



    So What were you saying again again about Maturity and Sticking to the Scriptures within Context ? ?
    And according to the writer of Hebrews, we should all be able to present the gospel, or as he called it- The principle/basic elements of Christ.

    For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.

  9. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Better re-read the parable of the talents brother. It is talking about discipleship. And yes, Paul was probably one with the 10 talents, but each of us are at the very least the one with one talent. You cannot be a real disciple of Jesus without making disciples. The great commission is for all of us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33
    Better re-read the parable of the talents brother. It is talking about discipleship. And yes, Paul was probably one with the 10 talents, but each of us are at the very least the one with one talent. You cannot be a real disciple of Jesus without making disciples. The great commission is for all of us.
    Well I guess WOE be unto all of us then if we fail to preach the gospel ?

    Which leads to the question then why agree with the Cardinals Post ?????

    The Cardinal had stated the following :

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    That's the reason some have stopped tithing. Many ministers have used tithing verses to bash, judge and bring believers into bondage
    But the Holy Spirit releases believers to give cheerfully not out of compulsion (tithes)
    Tithing is for believers who are immature and struggle to accurately divide the scriptures (in this specific topic) but cheerful giving is for mature Spirit lead believers

    He who the Son sets free is FREE indeed


    Here is a question for Tithers - Do you believe if you stopped tithing:
    God will no longer look after you financially
    You will miss out on certain blessings
    God will not hear some of your prayers
    You may get sick or suffer a calamity

    If you answer Yes to any of the above - You are in bondage
    Many believers say they tithe out of obedience to God's will but underneath there is FEAR something bad will happen if they don't tithe
    As the Cardinal States God only wants Cheerful Givers and by extension cheerful Soul Winners ... But yet Paul says woe unto him (Or US ALL ) as you claim if we don't preach the gospel .

    Isn't that motivation by Compulsion and fear as the Cardinal Asserted and you apparently agreed with ?isnt that bashing judging and bringing believers into bondage to quote the cardinal ?
    Last edited by BAP; 06-27-2022 at 10:09 AM.

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  11. #107
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Well I guess WOE be unto all of us then if we fail to preach the gospel ?

    Which leads to the question then why agree with the Cardinals Post ?????

    The Cardinal had stated the following :



    As the Cardinal States God only wants Cheerful Givers and by extension cheerful Soul Winners ... But yet Paul says woe unto him (Or US ALL ) as you claim if we don't preach the gospel .

    Isn't that motivation by Compulsion and fear as the Cardinal Asserted and you apparently agreed with ?isnt that bashing judging and bringing believers into bondage to quote the cardinal ?
    Just so you can take notice brother- That is not a "Like" or "Agree" button at the bottom of the page, it is a "Thanks" button. I have been thanking useful contributors to this discussion if you look back through it. Even if I don't agree with their stance on this doctrine, I truly appreciate that we can have a great discussion amongst brothers like this.

    You are arguing with Jesus now brother. The parable of the talents is in red letters. We will either hear the words "Well done, good and faithful servant" or "Depart from Me, you wicked and lazy servant!".

    Compulsion on the tithing issue usually stems from an improper use/understanding of Malachi. Some folks forget to ask "Who was Malachi talking to?" and "Why was he saying this to them?"
    The passage about robbing God has nothing to do with the NT church.




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  13. #108
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    "Thanks, Bap, I Like what you posted."

    You made excellent points.

  14. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Just so you can take notice brother- That is not a "Like" or "Agree" button at the bottom of the page, it is a "Thanks" button. I have been thanking useful contributors to this discussion if you look back through it. Even if I don't agree with their stance on this doctrine, I truly appreciate that we can have a great discussion amongst brothers like this.

    You are arguing with Jesus now brother. The parable of the talents is in red letters. We will either hear the words "Well done, good and faithful servant" or "Depart from Me, you wicked and lazy servant!".

    Compulsion on the tithing issue usually stems from an improper use/understanding of Malachi. Some folks forget to ask "Who was Malachi talking to?" and "Why was he saying this to them?"
    The passage about robbing God has nothing to do with the NT church.



    For most people the Use of the Thanks Button is to signal endorsement .. But To be fair to you , you do swing both ways(No Pun Intended) .. Nonetheless you didn't issue a rebuttal to The Cardinal's Post as you almost reflexively do mine .

    No i am not in disagreement with Jesus in fact the parable of the talents buttresses my point .

    The prevailing sentiment around here is that Jesus did it all and we only give if we feel like it and anybody who says otherwise is in bondage. Any talk of responsibility or requirement as we mature or as we are called is seen as Judgmental

    Well the lazy servant clearly didn't feel like it and saw no need to grow in maturity so see what that got him ?

    Furthermore, not all were held to the same standard or giving the same nos of talents, Neither did the two profitable servants even receive the same rewards which buttresses my point that in terms of directly preaching the gospel like Paul did we are not held to the same standard or judged by the same yardstick.

    Doesn't mean we don't have our individual roles to play but as they say in Nigeria "5 fingers are not Equal"

    Not sure what to make of your Malachi soliloquy . We have moved on from the tithe issue and agreed to disagree in good faith and we have moved on to the issue of compulsion in general and where it is applicable .

    It just seems like some here (You inclusive) are ok with compulsion except when it comes to tithing . The Cardinal even referred to it as "Freedom from Tithing" .

    All in all it simply means people don't want to have to give ten percent of their income. They may be willing to be compelled to do other things but definitely not the tithe,

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