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Thread: Alcohol in the NT - Should Christians Drink?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    Yes, I know.
    Some of the laws were very culturally and contemporarily oriented. The laws about the blood avenger, the laws regulating slavery, the laws about ritual purification including from menstruation, etc. What God does with us is to write the intent behind the law in our hearts but the application of that may not at all look like every individual law including the mentioned ones, when taken according to the letter.
    The law is good and holy but God knew that its application according to the letter would only last until the resurrection of Christ, when it still made sense in the context of the Jewish culture and their times.

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  3. #32
    Realistically I don't believe anyone in 2015 actually practices the whole Mosaic Law. So it would boil down to what part does a person want to practise

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  5. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Realistically I don't believe anyone in 2015 actually practices the whole Mosaic Law. So it would boil down to what part does a person want to practise
    There is no temple or tabernacle but I know some claim to practice it, but it should be very difficult unless one lives a very secluded life.

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  7. #34
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Some of the laws were very culturally and contemporarily oriented. The laws about the blood avenger, the laws regulating slavery, the laws about ritual purification including from menstruation, etc. What God does with us is to write the intent behind the law in our hearts but the application of that may not at all look like every individual law including the mentioned ones, when taken according to the letter.
    The law is good and holy but God knew that its application according to the letter would only last until the resurrection of Christ, when it still made sense in the context of the Jewish culture and their times.
    Yes, I know.

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  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    Yes, I know.
    Now stop arguing with me !


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  11. #36
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Please understand that I am not saying anyone should be under bondage to what some are referring to as, "The Law." First of all, the term is both prejudicial and incorrect when used as a derogatory term for the teachings of Moses. Moses was very clear about the need to have faith and the intent of God to reveal Himself. The minutia of the books of Moses are really nothing compared to the myriads of instructions given by Jesus and the disciples. Are Christians in bondage to the teachings of Jesus? Not at all! It's all about love, or at least it is supposed to be about love. Let's look at the intention of both the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Jesus. In a general sense, they both concentrated on revealing the nature and character of the Almighty. If we can adopt that as our focus when reading the record of the teachings of Moses, we can gain great benefit, just as be gain great understanding when we read the teachings of Jesus and the disciples.
    And yes, it is obvious that nobody can fulfill all of the instructions of Moses. That is why it was so important to mention in the writings of the disciples that Jesus did not transgress any of the teachings of Moses. You do know that He did not do everything that is included in the teachings of Moses, right? Since He was not a woman and He did not get married, He did not do all of the things mentioned in teachings about restoring ritual purity. He also did not participate in the purification ritual called the "Ashes of the Red Heifer."

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  13. #37
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    I'm not complaining. As a new Christian, the Holy Spirit burned stuff out of my heart by having me read passages from the law of Moses over and over again. It's the application according to the letter that has become obsolete.

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  15. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Please understand that I am not saying anyone should be under bondage to what some are referring to as, "The Law." First of all, the term is both prejudicial and incorrect when used as a derogatory term for the teachings of Moses. Moses was very clear about the need to have faith and the intent of God to reveal Himself. The minutia of the books of Moses are really nothing compared to the myriads of instructions given by Jesus and the disciples. Are Christians in bondage to the teachings of Jesus? Not at all! It's all about love, or at least it is supposed to be about love. Let's look at the intention of both the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Jesus. In a general sense, they both concentrated on revealing the nature and character of the Almighty. If we can adopt that as our focus when reading the record of the teachings of Moses, we can gain great benefit, just as be gain great understanding when we read the teachings of Jesus and the disciples.
    And yes, it is obvious that nobody can fulfill all of the instructions of Moses. That is why it was so important to mention in the writings of the disciples that Jesus did not transgress any of the teachings of Moses. You do know that He did not do everything that is included in the teachings of Moses, right? Since He was not a woman and He did not get married, He did not do all of the things mentioned in teachings about restoring ritual purity. He also did not participate in the purification ritual called the "Ashes of the Red Heifer."

    Can you please be more specific

    How do you determine which specific laws you will practise........obviously some automatically don't apply according to gender etc
    For instance if Messianic women believe like you... do they practice uncleanness ritual in their monthly cycle or when they have children

    I know there is the moral law which to me would be more important to fulfill


    I am not trying to be difficult but want to understand how you determine what should be practiced

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  17. #39
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    2 cor 3 discusses the ministry according to the letter versus the ministry according to the Spirit. It discusses the former in terms of it being engraved in letters on stone and the only part of the law that was engraved on stone was the ten commandments.

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  19. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    I know there is the moral law which to me would be more important to fulfill
    Recall that the Sabbath commandment is part of the ten commandments. Very few Christians even attempt to keep that commandment according to the letter.

    Col 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
    17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

    The Sabbath day is a shadow of the reality found in Christ, rest from own works 24/7. That rest is however an application of the Sabbath commandment, just not one that qualifies in any way according to the letter.

    There is also the more general statement in relation to specifically the ten commandments :

    Rom 13:9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
    10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

    The four he lists are all from the ten commandments and he sets up love (the kind that is found in God) as a summation of all the commandments. That doesn't mean that the obsoletion of the letter approach implies that anyone is supposed to go and do the opposite or something completely different, God's standards are still infinite in relation to the spirit of the law, the deeper intent.

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