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Thread: Alcohol in the NT - Should Christians Drink?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    I think some of the posters on this topic do not understand the teachings of the Bible. Some keep using the term, "Law" as if it is something God hates. I would remind you that God is the one who gave us the teachings of Moses and preserved them for us until today. God loves the revelation He gave and expects each of us to cherish His teachings. Please do not continue to insult the word of God that was revealed to Moses. I am not saying that this is a matter of salvation but rather it is a simple matter of giving due respect for things that are holy.
    Judaizers is a term for Christians who insist that Christians must follow the Old Covenant laws . This term is most widely known from its single use in the Greek New Testament (Galatians 2:14)[1] where Paul publicly challenges Peter for compelling gentile converts to Early Christianity to "judaize",[2] also known as the Incident at Antioch.

    This term also includes groups who claim the necessity of continued obedience to the Law of Moses found in the first five books of the Christian Old Testament,[3] although this is sometimes disputed by members of these groups, notably the Seventh-day Adventist Church, because the term Judaizers is typically used as a pejorative.

    Most Christians believe that much of the Old Covenant has been superseded, while some modern Protestants believe it has been completely abrogated and replaced with the Law of Christ. Thus, "one who has Judaized", refers to a Christian who has accepted the necessity of adhering to the Mosaic Laws or to specific laws that are believed to be superseded, such as circumcision, Sabbath observance, or observation of the Passover. The ongoing Christian debate over Judaizing began in the lifetime of the apostles, notably at the Council of Jerusalem and the Incident at Antioch, and parallels the ongoing debate about Paul the Apostle and Judaism, Protestant views of the Ten Commandments, and Christian ethics.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    How did the believers understand the term, "Judaizer" at the time? Since most of them were Jewish, it is not likely that they were saying that there is something wrong with being Jewish. Was Paul saying that Moses had been replaced? In his own words he refuted that possibility. So, what was the problem? Simply this. It is not possible to become a joint heir of the kingdom of heaven by acting like the Ultra-Orthodox Jews of that day. In simple words, it's not about how you look or what the world can see but instead it's all about what is in your heart. Eating kosher and praying in the synagogue will not bring you into the kingdom if your heart is not cleaved to God. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness..."

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  5. #23
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    I think some of the posters on this topic do not understand the teachings of the Bible. Some keep using the term, "Law" as if it is something God hates. I would remind you that God is the one who gave us the teachings of Moses and preserved them for us until today. God loves the revelation He gave and expects each of us to cherish His teachings. Please do not continue to insult the word of God that was revealed to Moses. I am not saying that this is a matter of salvation but rather it is a simple matter of giving due respect for things that are holy.
    Interesting...may we follow this train of thought for a few moments..my new friends, the flat earth folks, have done a lot of study on things like the Sabbath and the new moon feasts and such. They practice the keeping of the Sabbath but not legalistically. They simply believe that as Christ followers who love their Father, they desire to please Him and essentially have stated what you stated...

    And when they presented the idea to us and emphasized they don't view that it has anything to do with salvation but does have significance relationally..

    When they describe their Sabbath I actually envy them...it's a beautiful thing of dedication and sanctification..no they don't kill a lamb or anything...they simply REST in the scriptures, eat light, and be together..

    They also follow the 'creation calendar' and celebrate the Sabbath based on it...

    The next time we spend time together I am going to remind them to guard their faith by making sure they keep it in the finished work of Jesus and don't shift it to 'works'..

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  7. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    How did the believers understand the term, "Judaizer" at the time? Since most of them were Jewish, it is not likely that they were saying that there is something wrong with being Jewish. Was Paul saying that Moses had been replaced? In his own words he refuted that possibility. So, what was the problem? Simply this. It is not possible to become a joint heir of the kingdom of heaven by acting like the Ultra-Orthodox Jews of that day. In simple words, it's not about how you look or what the world can see but instead it's all about what is in your heart. Eating kosher and praying in the synagogue will not bring you into the kingdom if your heart is not cleaved to God. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness..."
    ◄ Galatians 5 ►
    1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

    2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

    7You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. 9A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. 10I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. 11But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. 12I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.

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  9. #25
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Drake View Post
    So when Jesus turned water into wine he was guilty of encouraging them into disobedience. That makes Jesus as guilty as them. Maybe you should challenge Jesus to repent when you next meet him?

    Many here will explain the wine at the wedding as being fresh grape juice, fresh being the "best" wine.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    I think some of the posters on this topic do not understand the teachings of the Bible. Some keep using the term, "Law" as if it is something God hates. I would remind you that God is the one who gave us the teachings of Moses and preserved them for us until today. God loves the revelation He gave and expects each of us to cherish His teachings. Please do not continue to insult the word of God that was revealed to Moses. I am not saying that this is a matter of salvation but rather it is a simple matter of giving due respect for things that are holy.

    I agree, Tom.

    Jeremiah 31:33 "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

    Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

    Hebrews 10:16 "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

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  13. #27
    If Messianic Jews choose to practice certain parts of the Mosaic Law that is between them and God as long it is not related to attaining salvation.

    On the other hand if some Messianic Jews do not want to practise any of the Mosaic law and customs they should also be free to do so without feeling under pressure by other Messianic Jews.

    Everyone has to walk according to their convictions as long as no one applies religious pressure .

    I have been to Israel and met Messianic Jews and many do celebrate certain feasts etc. I think it depends on the sort of assembly they belong as to how much of Mosaic laws they practise.

    What I observed in Israel is the extreme Orthodox Jew on one end and the totally secular atheist Jew on the other end with the middle filled with people who have their own views and they practise the OT appropriate to what they believe
    God gave me the opportunity to witness to a secular atheist Jew and her friend and both were very open to the gospel

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  15. #28
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    I agree, Tom.

    Jeremiah 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

    Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

    Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
    Having Gods laws in ones heart is very different to trying to observe them according to the letter, 2 Cor 3 talks about this.

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    Thinking about my previous post, we often refer to our salvation as having Jesus in our hearts. Jesus fulfilled the Law. So having Jesus in our hearts brings the fulness of the OT to fruition in our hearts? And written on our minds... meditate on the Law, Jesus, the fulfillment of the Law, day and night....

    hmmmmmmm........... just pondering. ........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Having Gods laws in ones heart is very different to trying to observe them according to the letter, 2 Cor 3 talks about this.
    Yes, I know.

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