Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 129

Thread: Did God know that Billions would go to Hell?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    There is another option bro. He knows the future, yet allows us to exercise our free will. He has set the law of sowing and reaping into motion. We have to choose between life or death, blessings or curses. He even knows the things that some of us needed to go through in order to bring us to surrender. Because He has chosen not to stop our sowing, we must also reap what we have sowed. This spiritual law is as sure as the physical law of gravity.
    I believe that a good study of the word shows the principle that Bill Johnson spoke, "God is in charge, not in control".

    If He were in control, then He would also be the author of evil. He gave us control over our own lives, within His parameters. Boundaries!
    I used to adhere to that option. But then I studied Scripture and found out that it is no longer an option for me. God says that there were things that never entered into His mind. He regretted having created man when men bacame exceeedingly wicked. He told Abraham that He only knew that Abraham would be loyal AFTER Abraham demonstrated it. He sought for people to stand in the gap for the land but found none. He thought that after Israel had sinned that they would still return to Him but they did not. He thought that Eli's family would be priests before Him forvere but they failed Him. He planned to have Saul's family on the throne forvere, but Saul failed Him.

    These are but a few of many examples. But the worse is that to accept your premise is to believe that God created with the exhaustive foreknowledge that billions would suffer an eternal damnation. We arrest people for having the type of foreknowledge of devastating events yet going forward with their plans. It's called NEGLIGENCE.
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to victoryword For This Useful Post:

    Valiant Woman (12-21-2015)

  3. #12
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    It's called NEGLIGENCE.
    It's called holding people responsible for their actions.

    Per the verses from Isaiah 41, can you tell us what God's plans were concerning how many would end up in hell and who or what thwarted his plans ?

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    It's called holding people responsible for their actions.
    So in your system of philosophy God holds people accountable for actions that are not yet in existence even though He created the circumstances by which they would act?

    And you say that you are NOT a CALVINIST?

    Per the verses from Isaiah 41, can you tell us what God's plans were concerning how many would end up in hell and who or what thwarted his plans ?
    After you have explained all the numerous BIblical examples I gave you and reconcile them wth your system of philosophy that says that God knows all future events when He has stated in a number of places in Scripture that He doesn't. Otherwise I really don't care whether or not you accept this Biblical truth.
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to victoryword For This Useful Post:

    Valiant Woman (12-21-2015)

  6. #14
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ashville, Alabama
    Posts
    5,920
    Thanked: 3402
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    If that is true then God is playing games with the human race, is schizophrenic, and quite irresponsible:

    Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
    Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
    Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

    If God knew it all the time then why set Himself up for grief? Why should He regret having ever created man?
    ]If that is true then God is playing games with the human race, is schizophrenic, and quite irresponsible:
    God desired children and loves to love..despite knowing many would reject Him He chose to endure that rejection for the ones that would love Him..

  7. #15
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ashville, Alabama
    Posts
    5,920
    Thanked: 3402
    Blog Entries
    2
    1 Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
    Revelation 13:8
    All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the Lamb's book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

  8. #16
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ashville, Alabama
    Posts
    5,920
    Thanked: 3402
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    God can tell His future plans and He is able to thwart any plans of anyone else.

    If The future is set in stone then God either decreed every single event and if that is the case then you should simply become a Calvinist.

    If God is like the weak Arminian God who knows the future but can't do anything to change it then there is a force in the universe more powerful than Himself. If He knows the future but is able to change the future but moves forward with creating things that will make that evil future happen then again, Calvinism is right. If He knows the future and does something to change the future then He never knew the future.
    You declare two extremes..I find that odd..You can't seem to see a God in between those two extremes? A God who knows the future and by His wisdom designed a plan for those who chose Him..

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Quest For This Useful Post:

    Colonel (12-14-2015)

  10. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    God desired children and loves to love..despite knowing many would reject Him He chose to endure that rejection for the ones that would love Him..
    If you had foreknowledge that you would have a child who would later become a mass murderer and rapist and you had a choice as to whether or not you would get pregnant and have the child, would you have it anyway?
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to victoryword For This Useful Post:

    Valiant Woman (12-21-2015)

  12. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    1 Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
    Revelation 13:8
    All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the Lamb's book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
    From the notes in my studies on thiese passages:

    4. But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you (1 Pet. 1:19-20).

    • a. The word “foreordained” is the same Greek word meaning “foreknown”. Some Calvinists have attempted to use this passage in an attempt to teach that God predestined man’s fall and the redemption of the elect through Christ, but this idea cannot hold up under a proper word study.

      b. but rather by Christ’s precious (valuable; honorable; costly) blood -- as of a flawless (unblemished) and spotless Lamb: being One having been foreknown (previously known by intimate experience), indeed, before [the] casting down (as of material for a foundation: founding; as of seed in a field: sowing; as of seed of a man: conception [cf Heb. 11:11]; as in throwing something down: overthrowing; as in battle = slaying; in politics: abandoning [a measure]; of debts: paying down by instalments;) of [the; or: an] ordered system (world; universe; a particular order of things), yet One being set in clear light and manifested upon [the] last (final) part of the times (of the chronological time periods) because of you folks (Jonathan Mitchell New Testament)

      c. This idea of “foreknown as “intimacy” fits well with Jesus’s prayer to the Father: “Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world (John 17:24).
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  13. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    1 Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
    Revelation 13:8
    All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the Lamb's book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
    From my notes on Rev. 13:8 (Sorry, no time to do a lot of formatting. If you are interested then read thru them):

    1. Many theologians tell us that God’s planned of redemption before He created because He foreknew the fall of man. Let us examine their scriptural evidence for this assertion.

    a. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Revelation 13:8)

    b. The word for foundation in the Greek is katabolē. The problem with this verse is that in the majority of English translations, the word “foundation” is used. However, thorough research has proven that this is not the best translation of katabolē.

    c. According to some dictionaries, our English word “catabolism” . The Harper Collins dictionary says that it is a “destructive metabolism”. Furthermore, Harper Collins says that it is “from Greek katabolē a throwing down, from kataballein, from kata- down + ballein to throw” W. E. Vine, while acknowledging its use in Scripture, says that katabole literally means, “a casting down”.

    d. The Online Etymology Dictionary also confirms this: “1876, ‘destructive metabolism,’ from Gk. katabole ‘a throwing down,’ from kataballein ‘to throw down,’ from kata- ‘down"’+ ballein ‘to throw’ (see ballistics). “

    e. “On the basis of the verbal root kataballe they argue (as I myself have done) that the noun means ‘disruption’, since the verb means ‘to cast down’. Origen equated the verbal root of kataballe with the Latin dejicere, ‘to throw down’. In this he is essentially correct.” Arthur Custance

    f. “Katabole - Word Origin from (2598) Kataballo used in Rev. 12:10 concerning Satan being cast down….The Noun, katabole, occurs in Matt. 13:35; 25:34. Luke 11:50. John 17:24. Eph. 1:4. Heb. 4:3; 9:26; 11:11. 1Pet. 1:20. Rev. 13:8; 17:8; and the corresponding Verb (kataballo) occurs in 2Cor. 4:9. Heb. 6:1; and Rev. 12:10. A comparison of all these passages (especially 2Cor. 4:9, and Rev. 12:10) will show that kataballo and katabole are not the proper terms for founding and foundation, but the correct meaning is casting down, or overthrow.” Bullinger

    g. Bullinger concludes: “Consistency, therefore, calls for the same translation in Heb. 6:1, where, instead of ‘not laying again’, the rendering should be ‘not casting down’. That is to say, the foundation already laid, of repentance, &c., was not to be cast down or overthrown, but was to be left -- and progress made unto the perfection. Accordingly, the Noun katabole, derived from, and cognate with the Verb, ought to be translated ‘disruption’, or ‘ruin’.

    h. Some literal Bible translations recognize the true meaning of katabole::

    i. And all who are dwelling on the earth will be worshiping it, everyone whose name is not written in the scroll of life of the Lambkin slain from the disruption of the world. (Rev. 13:8; Concordant Literal Version)

    j. And will worship him all those dwelling on the earth, of which not has been written the name in the scroll of the life of the lamb of that having been killed, from a casting down of a world. (Emphatic Diaglott New Testament)

    k. And all those continually dwelling upon the earth (land) will worship it -- of which ones, the name has not been written within the scroll of “The Life of the little Lamb:” the One having been slaughtered from a casting-down of [the] ordered arrangement (world) [or: from {the} world's founding]. (Jonathan Mitchell New Testament)

    2. Calvinists have taken from Rev. 13:8 (and Rev. 17:8) the idea that every single person who will ever exist either has their name already in the Lamb’s book of life or never will. Those in the book are preselected for salvation. Scripture does not support this idea:

    a. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin––; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book (Ex. 32:32-33).

    b. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous (Psalm 69:28).

    c. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels (Rev. 35).

    d. The fact that names can be blotted out of the book demonstrates that God did not write in the names of selected individuals for salvation before He created them. Furthermore, if names can be blotted from God’s book then they can be added as well. Take notice of the phrase, “….but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life” (Rev. 21:27b). This passage does not indicate at what point in time the names were written. The names are likely written in the book of life when one is added to the church: “And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved” (Acts 2:47b). This adding was done at a point in time. If they had been pre-selected then the language used in Acts 2:47 is unnecessary.
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  14. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    You declare two extremes..I find that odd..You can't seem to see a God in between those two extremes? A God who knows the future and by His wisdom designed a plan for those who chose Him..
    No, because that god cannot be found in Scripture. It is only found in the philosophical systems of Calvinism and Arminianism.
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
You can avoid major, expensive repair costs with an extended service plan for your Toyota. We have plans for all Toyota models including the Toyota Corrolla.