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Thread: Tithing v Giving - What does the NT Teach?

  1. #41
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I know

    I don't see that the context changes the statement at all..

    It's obvious Jesus was not berating them for tithing..In fact He says they should have done this;
    Right. But the context is it was right for them to do that as Jews under the law. We aren't Jews and we aren't under the law.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I know

    I don't see that the context changes the statement at all..

    It's obvious Jesus was not berating them for tithing..In fact He says they should have done this; He was berating them for leaving the OTHER undone..

    "These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone"
    Jesus was discussing what the Pharisees did and should have done, true. The people, among them the children of Abraham according to their faith, were listening and learning the truth about those who had set themselves up as their teachers both in terms of the law and in terms of commandments they had invented themselves. That does not mean that every little detail pertaining to the law that Jesus discusses in relation to the Pharisees suddenly becomes transferable to the New Covenant just because he happens to mention those in his speech on hypocrisy among contemporary Jewish leaders.

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  5. #43
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Simply, they were under the law and supposed to tithe. We aren't under the law and are not under any compulsion to do so. We are to be generous and do it cheerfully. That's it.

    There is no scripture in the NT that addresses believers to tithe (and no, Hebrews doesn't either). And there actually isn't any scriptures addressing systemic giving other than Paul addressing the Corinthians about a special offering ( Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come) he was going to get from them for the Jews at Jerusalem. It wasn't a general command for giving to the believers. As a matter of fact the spirit and Spirit of the NT pretty much leaves it up to between you and God how you should give. If you want to tithe, fine, but it's no different than giving any other way and nothing special about it.

    Not saying you're doing this, but so many people want to be in other people's pockets about how they should give, especially the ministers since they are the recipients of it.

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  7. #44
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    There is something to learn from Jesus' speeches even when they aren't directly transferable to us in terms of "do this don't do that". It's not a matter of either "keep those commandments" or "tear that page out of your Bible".

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  9. #45
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Not tithing in the NT? Excuse me but let me remind you in the words of the Eternal Son of God:

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, but not to leave the other undone." Matt 23:23


    Matthew is in the New Testament!!


    Jesus said these words. That means we all need to listen. They are true for all of us.

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  11. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Not tithing in the NT? Excuse me but let me remind you in the words of the Eternal Son of God: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, but not to leave the other undone." Matt 23:23


    Matthew is in the New Testament!!
    Yes, in your Bible it is but surely you're studied enough to know Jesus ministered under the old covenant. If you're seriously using that as an argument...well, I really don't know what to say.

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  13. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Yes, in your Bible it is but surely you're studied enough to know Jesus ministered under the old covenant. If you're seriously using that as an argument...well, I really don't know what to say.
    Not so sure about that....

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  15. #48
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Jesus was the Son of God. He never ministered under a covenant that would have restricted Him. He was not hemmed in by anything that would have kept Him from communicating to all His people. When He spoke we all are to listen and obey. It is that simple. It is a baptistic theology that puts a dispensational iron curtain on Jesus words and makes Paul more important than Christ Himself. I just cannot buy that. I serve Jesus, not Paul. Yes I follow Paul's inspired word, but Jesus is my focal point as to where I get my biblical instruction. Jesus said it was good to tithe. That to me means all the verses in the NT about giving are connected to Jesus words. They do not stand alone apart from the Words of Jesus Himself. Trying to interpret "giving" scriptures in the NT as non-tithing after Jesus Himself spoke is going down the wrong road.

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  17. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Jesus was the Son of God. He never ministered under a covenant that would have restricted Him. He was not hemmed in by anything that would have kept Him from communicating to all His people. When He spoke we all are to listen and obey. It is that simple. It is a baptistic theology that puts a dispensational iron curtain on Jesus words and makes Paul more important than Christ Himself. I just cannot buy that. I serve Jesus, not Paul. Yes I follow Paul's inspired word, but Jesus is my focal point as to where I get my biblical instruction. Jesus said it was good to tithe. That to me means all the verses in the NT about giving are connected to Jesus words. They do not stand alone apart from the Words of Jesus Himself. Trying to interpret "giving" scriptures in the NT as non-tithing after Jesus Himself spoke is going down the wrong road.
    Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
    2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
    3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do

    Nikos, do you keep Jesus' words here and observe and do everything the Pharisees and scribes told the multitudes and Jesus' disciples to observe ? Or does that not apply under the new covenant ?

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  19. #50
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    I believe that there is such a thing as the Old testament dispensation. Jesus was enforcing that. But I do not see that Jesus was an Old Testament prophet. He was the Son of God. The Scribes and Pharisees were to give instructions. They were never given the power to enforce their authority over all people including future generations. God could only do that. I refuse to follow any theology that is not centered in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. The minute you try to make Jesus for an OT Dispensation only, sorry I am not a part of that. Jesus is Truth. When He spoke He spoke Truth. He can do not otherwise. His words are for ALL. I am His follower and I interpret the Bible according to Jesus and the Triune Godhead. If you don't understand this then there is little more that I can do. But I am a Jesus follower. And I know He will never lead me astray. When He speaks, whenever, at any time, I will listen and obey with His help. I will not limit him into some element of time. He cannot be limited. HE IS GOD! And I am thankful that He is MY God!

    I am out of here. Thanks!

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