Thread: Pentecostals and John Piper !

Originally Posted by Bookman

It's not only ridiculous, it's an admission of purposely avoiding good and necessary teaching on those subjects these guys are good at. Charles Stanley is another good example. He's not charismatic/Pentecostal, but a lot of charismatics would do well to pay him some attention.

I would tell any new believer to avoid all three as toxic to their faith. Stanley said we must accept everything in life as God's will for us ! What nonsense ! MacArthur will take away healing faith and faith in the gifts and replace them with his errors. The only one I actually like is Piper. But as sweet as he is he is deceived by the devilish doctrines of Calvinism !If satan wants to poison you he would not give you poison alone.He would mix a brew of sweet tea and put the poison in it !Oh darling that cancer is a gift from God !He is sovereign and could heal you if He wanted to, but He won't !Poison !

I can definitely receive from John Piper without a doubt. I like many different teachers, including Dr. Stanley, who lead me to Christ while watching him on tv. I am quite shocked though, that you would pay any attention to MacArthur who is one of the worst false teachers around. He doesn't just disagree with Pentecostal doctrine, he calls it and all who subscribe to it, following/promoting demons, false teaching, etc.....he is a piece of work. And I don't say that lightly. His false accusations and libelous, scandalous, claims about the brethren are demonic....only demons put those types of things in people's minds. I really pity him at the judgement.

Originally Posted by Bookman

I like John Piper. But I go to John Piper to get what he has to give that I need. I also go to John MacArthur for what he has to offer. I do not go to them for teaching on the Holy Spirit. As J. Vernon McGee used to say, "I may graze in other men's pastures, but I give my own milk." I have yet to see or hear the pastor/teacher who has a perfect understanding of all things doctrinal. I believe if I didn't graze in these other pastures, I'd be missing some vital nutritional element in my spiritual diet. I trust the working of the Holy Spirit in my life to sort out the meat from the bones.

Originally Posted by LionHeart

I would tell any new believer to avoid all three as toxic to their faith. Stanley said we must accept everything in life as God's will for us ! What nonsense ! MacArthur will take away healing faith and faith in the gifts and replace them with his errors. The only one I actually like is Piper. But as sweet as he is he is deceived by the devilish doctrines of Calvinism !If satan wants to poison you he would not give you poison alone.He would mix a brew of sweet tea and put the poison in it !Oh darling that cancer is a gift from God !He is sovereign and could heal you if He wanted to, but He won't !Poison !

Excellent synopsis!

I really pity him at the judgement.

I think he'll be just fine at the judgment. He's as covered by the blood of Christ as any of us. The truth is unless we are going to receive mercy at the judgment (due to Christ's sacrifice), we are all doomed, because we all fall short whether in doctrine or in living out our faith. The only person who needs to fear God's judgment is an unsaved man or woman.

James 3:1
Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

Originally Posted by Bookman

I think he'll be just fine at the judgment. He's as covered by the blood of Christ as any of us. The truth is unless we are going to receive mercy at the judgment (due to Christ's sacrifice), we are all doomed, because we all fall short whether in doctrine or in living out our faith. The only person who needs to fear God's judgment is an unsaved man or woman.

I wouldn't be so concerned about John Macarthur, he was instrumental in my getting baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I was at that place in my walk with the Lord where it was decision time as to whether or not "gifts were for today" and was looking to multiple sources for direction, John Macarthur and his cessationist book being one of them. As I was reading his book, he kept quoting scripture and then trying to explain it away. For me the scriptures were clear but his interpretation did leave some doubt. So, I remember putting the book down, getting on my knees and asking God to settle it. After some time in prayer a heavenly language began to bubble out of me. That settled it.

God can use anyone to bring about His purpose and will, even if they don't know it.

I don't worry about seccationists so much because of obvious reasons and certainly wouldn't curse them with judgement, that's not my place. The ones I am concerned about are the Harry Potter christians, those who believe that everything supernatural is of God. That is more of an assault on Charismatics than anything else. And yes, I do have concern for their souls.

Originally Posted by Bookman

I think he'll be just fine at the judgment. He's as covered by the blood of Christ as any of us.

Concerning sins believers commit after being born again, only sins that we have confessed and forsaken have been put under the Blood of Jesus as noted in Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9

Those that teach false doctrine rarely know they have been deceived and are contradicting the teachings of Jesus (Jude 1:4)

The word denying in Jude 1:4 means to contradict, which is the sad state of affairs for many today that have embraced OSAS, aka extreme grace. They are teaching things that contradict the teachings of Jesus Who taught the Gospel of the Kingdom... not the gospel of grace which is taking grace out of it's place and taking it in to the ditch.

Galatians 6:7,8 (among others), clearly teaches us that what we sow is what we reap and if we so to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption... God cannot be mocked.

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

Concerning sins believers commit after being born again, only sins that we have confessed and forsaken have been put under the Blood of Jesus as noted in Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9

Those that teach false doctrine rarely know they have been deceived and are contradicting the teachings of Jesus (Jude 1:4)

The word denying in Jude 1:4 means to contradict, which is the sad state of affairs for many today that have embraced OSAS, aka extreme grace. They are teaching things that contradict the teachings of Jesus Who taught the Gospel of the Kingdom... not the gospel of grace which is taking grace out of it's place and taking it in to the ditch.

Galatians 6:7,8 (among others), clearly teaches us that what we sow is what we reap and if we so to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption... God cannot be mocked.

Your last line I agree with. But I do not believe that God imputes sin to a person who is "in Christ." That is an impossibility. My identity in Christ is that of a forgiven person. I'm forgiven of all my sins: past, present, and future. Otherwise, how is Christ's sacrifice superior to the OT sacrifices that had to be offered yearly for fresh forgiveness of sins committed since last year's sacrifice? Christ came to put away ALL our sin. Romans 6 addresses this in anticipating the obvious question: Does grace mean we're now free to sin without recourse? Paul says "May it never be!" For just as we are forgiven persons, so too are we delivered persons. Delivered from the power of sin.

So according to 1 John 1:9 what should a believer do who sins? Confess (agree with God) and thank Him for His cleansing power which has already dealt with the sin.

From my observation, to believe God imputes sin to a believer only leads to a roller coaster experience of being forgiven one day and feeling condemned the next day. It actually helps perpetuate sin in the life of the believer.

Originally Posted by LionHeart

I would tell any new believer to avoid all three as toxic to their faith. Stanley said we must accept everything in life as God's will for us ! What nonsense ! MacArthur will take away healing faith and faith in the gifts and replace them with his errors. The only one I actually like is Piper. But as sweet as he is he is deceived by the devilish doctrines of Calvinism !If satan wants to poison you he would not give you poison alone.He would mix a brew of sweet tea and put the poison in it !Oh darling that cancer is a gift from God !He is sovereign and could heal you if He wanted to, but He won't !Poison !

I could NOT have said it better. I used to like Stanley's teaching style even if I didnot agree with him doctrinally but when he kept spouting his "God is in control" doctrine in every sentence and kept harping on the OSAS lie, I decided no more of him. All three of these men blame God for the evil in this world and to me that is blasphemy to the nth degree.

no, they don't "blame" God for anything.