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Thread: The State of the Church

  1. #11
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    There has been teaching going back decades that only the overcomers or those serving God faithfully will only be raptured.

    If that's true there is going to be millions of shocked Christians
    Last edited by Cardinal TT; 11-09-2015 at 06:35 PM.

  2. #12
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme* View Post
    hm.. yeah, like those who got carted off to Babylon.. or those fed to the lions, or those being murdered everyday by ISIS.

    Yup, sure shows God never lets us go through any difficulties.
    I have always felt Stephen is our best image of both those truths...the way of escape and suffering for Christ...
    Then there Paul and Silas on prison...though in a physical prison, beaten, they worshiped God and sang praises...were freed to minister and then released officially the next morning.

    I don't relate to the way of escape as always escaping suffering but more knowing the joy and eternal hope through it when necessary as escape is not in the plan...

  3. #13
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    There has been teaching going back decades that only the overcomers or those serving God faithfully will only be ruptured.

    If that's true there is going to be millions of shocked Christians
    I believe all that have their faith in Christ as their savior will be taken...the problem is that when that day comes have they had the relationship and faith to stand and not turn from Him?

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I have always felt Stephen is our best image of both those truths...the way of escape and suffering for Christ...
    Then there Paul and Silas on prison...though in a physical prison, beaten, they worshiped God and sang praises...were freed to minister and then released officially the next morning.

    I don't relate to the way of escape as always escaping suffering but more knowing the joy and eternal hope through it when necessary as escape is not in the plan...
    Re Stephen.. yes, eventuallly we all die, and thereby escape further suffering.. but some of us have horrible, nasty experiences leading to that death.

    And, I completely agree, even in our suffering, we continually praise God and thank Him for being with us through it.

  5. #15
    * Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy Farm Truck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    If that's true there is going to be millions of shocked Christians
    It was Jesus that said not everyone that calls Him Lord will inherit the Kingdom of God, except for those that do the will of the Father. (Matthew 7:21)

    The whole purpose of the Gospel is to bring mankind into a personal relationship with the Father, thru Jesus Christ, by the Holy Ghost.

    Unfortunately, some people want to miss hell but they aren't too keen about actually having a relationship with the Father cause they have allowed the care of this life and the desires of other things become more important to them that God... according to Jesus (Mark 4:14-20)

    If someone wants something other than the Lord as first place in their life, they are practicing idolatry and Jesus said all idolators will spend eternity in ye olde lake o fire. That's the problem with OSAS... scripture doesn't teach that.

    Ya think Jesus knew what He is walking about... of was He misinformed?

    Revelation 21:7,8
    He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Farm Truck View Post
    Actually, there is going to be a rapture for those that are overcomers.

    Through history, God has always made a way of escape for His faithful.
    That is error.

  7. #17
    * Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy Farm Truck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle View Post
    That is error.
    OK, so you believe those that live in sin are going to Heaven?

    That is error. You know, sometimes people get born again and then fall back in to sin and refuse to have a relationship with the Lord. Did you read Mark 4:14-20, and Mark 15 where Jesus said those IN HIM that bare not fruit the Father takes way?

    I'd like to think Jesus knows what is going on and is telling the truth. Maybe Jesus doesn't agree with the extreme grace position that teaches you can live like the world and still go to Heaven.

    Luke 21:36
    Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape
    all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    Bottom Line... WATCH and BE READY!

    *The only way to escape the things Jesus was speaking of that are coming upon the earth (the tribulation) is to not be on the earth – which can only happen if we are raptured.

    2 Peter 3:14
    Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

    Rev 3:10
    Because you have kept My Word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.

    1 Thessalonians 5:5-10
    Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
    Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
    But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
    For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
    Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

    1 Corinthians 15:52,53
    In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

    Romans 5:9
    Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

    Revelation 19:7,8
    Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
    And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

    The Jewish Wedding Model
    *Speaks of the Groom coming to get His Bride after His bride has been made ready, and has adorned Herself to be pure and clean... not beaten down after having gone thru the worst period of death and destruction the world has ever known or will ever know.

    *The Groom would pay for His Bride, and then go and prepare a place for Her on His Father’s land...while the Bride is preparing herself for the time when the Groom would come back for her, which she did not know

    when that would be so she had to stay ready an keep herself ready (See John 14:2,3 – Jesus says He is going to prepare a place for us and He will come and get us)

    *The bride comes out to meet the Groom when He comes

    Matthew 24:36
    But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

    Bottom Line... WATCH and BE READY!

    Matthew 24:37-51
    But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage (illicit sexual activity), until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
    And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    But know this, that if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
    Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
    Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
    Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
    Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
    But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delays his coming;
    And shall begin to smite his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; (drunk with false doctrine, attacking those that disagree with them)
    The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looks not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
    And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 25:1-13 (Parable of the foolish virgins)
    Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
    And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
    They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
    But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
    While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
    And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
    Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
    And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
    But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

    And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
    Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    Wherefore comfort (encourage) one another with these words.

    *If the Body of Christ was going through the tribulation, the Lord would not have told us to comfort one another with these words where first the dead bodies of the Saints that have already passed into Heaven are raised up (to be glorified and given back to each person), and we then are raised up together with them to meet the Lord

    *In the Jewish wedding model, the bride and the Bridegroom are alone for seven days consummating the marriage – This represents the marriage supper of the Lamb during the seven years of tribulation that is ongoing on the earth, we will be with the Lord in Heaven.

    Revelation Ch: 2 and 3
    Seven letters to the Church represents the Body of Christ on earth and the things Jesus has to say to different parts of the Body, and is a prophetic outline of the church age.

    Revelation Ch: 4 and 5
    Represents the church in Heaven

    Isaiah 26:20,21
    Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
    For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

  8. #18
    The Catching Away occurs the same day as the Second Coming.

    The error is that it occurs seven years before.

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    Ezekiel 33 (11-12-2015)

  10. #19
    In this world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer....I have overcome the world. ~ Jesus

  11. #20
    We escape the wrath. We do not escape tribulation.

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