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Thread: For comparison purposes only.

  1. #1

    For comparison purposes only.

    OK, some might think I'm pushing it but these two entries were one after the other as I just scrolled through FB this evening.

    First we had:
    For comparison purposes only.-capture-jpg
    then we had:
    For comparison purposes only.-capture2-jpg

    Here I minimised the size just to prove I was being truthful.
    For comparison purposes only.-capture-jpg

    We don't (well I didn't) see anything like this in Ben's bio on his site, but a Christian site says "Ben's clean sense of humour, coupled with his unashamed commitment to his Christian faith has taken his latest endeavors to Hollywood, LA where he is currently starring in Audacity, a feature film that is currently being filmed."

    I wonder how many church people would choose to go see a comedian on Sunday over hearing about Antinomianism and Lordship Salvation? Would they even know what they mean? Yet a move towards the first and a corresponding move away from the second, which has happened time and time in the Church, and is happening again now, always results in a serious decline in the Church.

    A decline in the Church means our children, grand-children, great-grand-children may not hear the Gospel.

    And you know what that means ....

  2. #2
    Honestly, I think I'd rather go to a cock fight or a yodeling contest than listen to MacArthur talk about Lordship Salvation.

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  4. #3
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    Honestly, I think I'd rather go to a cock fight or a yodeling contest than listen to MacArthur talk about Lordship Salvation.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    Honestly, I think I'd rather go to a cock fight or a yodeling contest than listen to MacArthur talk about Lordship Salvation.
    No surprise there. Fancy wanting to hear someone suggest that "the gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ's authority"?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    No surprise there. Fancy wanting to hear someone suggest that "the gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ's authority"?
    I've got a copy of both MacArthur's book "The Gospel According to Jesus" which presents the LS view, and Charles Ryrie's book "So Great Salvation" which was written in rebuttal. Ryrie demolishes Lordship Salvation. If our salvation depended on our efforts it wouldn't be grace. The only repenting we do is repenting of rejecting Jesus. The Lordship of Jesus is simply acknowledging Him as God and as King. It doesn't mean we have to have every aspect of life totally surrendered to the point of achieving sinless perfection.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    I've got a copy of both MacArthur's book "The Gospel According to Jesus" which presents the LS view, and Charles Ryrie's book "So Great Salvation" which was written in rebuttal. Ryrie demolishes Lordship Salvation. If our salvation depended on our efforts it wouldn't be grace. The only repenting we do is repenting of rejecting Jesus. The Lordship of Jesus is simply acknowledging Him as God and as King. It doesn't mean we have to have every aspect of life totally surrendered to the point of achieving sinless perfection.
    Sounds like a Galatians thing. It can work the same way even if they don't relate it to the literal law of Moses.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    If our salvation depended on our efforts it wouldn't be grace.
    So true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    The only repenting we do is repenting of rejecting Jesus.
    Are you saying then that we can become/be a Christian without repenting of our sins? That we can continue in the same lifestyle after becoming a Christian that we lived beforehand?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    So true.


    Are you saying then that we can become/be a Christian without repenting of our sins? That we can continue in the same lifestyle after becoming a Christian that we lived beforehand?
    No. I'm saying that the issue is Jesus. Do you put your trust in Him and what He's done, or do you put your trust in your efforts? When the jailer at Philippi asked Paul "What must I do to be saved?" Paul didn't say anything about repenting of his sins. He said to believe on Jesus. When the Ethiopian eunuch asked Phillip about the text in Isaiah, Phillip just preached Jesus to him. At the end of Acts Paul rented a place in Rome and preached Jesus and the Kingdom of God. We should all pursue holiness and confess our sins when we fail, but repenting of sin isn't how you get saved. That's works based, and the gospel is grace based.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Are you saying then that we can become/be a Christian without repenting of our sins?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    No. (you say, but then you say) repenting of sin isn't how you get saved. That's works based, and the gospel is grace based.
    !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    When the jailer at Philippi asked Paul "What must I do to be saved?" Paul didn't say anything about repenting of his sins. He said to believe on Jesus. When the Ethiopian eunuch asked Phillip about the text in Isaiah, Phillip just preached Jesus to him. At the end of Acts Paul rented a place in Rome and preached Jesus and the Kingdom of God.
    True statements, but

    -"Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;"
    -(the disciples) went out and preached that men should repent.
    -Peter said " Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord"


    -Paul said he "kept declaring ... that (men) should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance."
    -Paul said he "did not shrink from declaring (and) solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ."

    -Jesus Himself said "unless you repent, you will all likewise perish"
    -He also said "there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents"
    -He said to them, "Thus it is written ... that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations"

    Actually the only time I can literally see the words believe and repent in the same verse is where we are told that "after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.""

    But given we are told so many times to repent without being told to believe then maybe we just need to repent, not believe?

    Or perhaps it's both, as Paul says in Acts 20, "serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials which came upon me through the plots of the Jews; ... I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house, solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ."

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    !!!



    True statements, but

    -"Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;"
    -(the disciples) went out and preached that men should repent.
    -Peter said " Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord"


    -Paul said he "kept declaring ... that (men) should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance."
    -Paul said he "did not shrink from declaring (and) solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ."

    -Jesus Himself said "unless you repent, you will all likewise perish"
    -He also said "there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents"
    -He said to them, "Thus it is written ... that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations"

    Actually the only time I can literally see the words believe and repent in the same verse is where we are told that "after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.""

    But given we are told so many times to repent without being told to believe then maybe we just need to repent, not believe?

    Or perhaps it's both, as Paul says in Acts 20, "serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials which came upon me through the plots of the Jews; ... I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house, solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ."
    Peter was addressing the Jewish people who had just crucified Jesus. The repentance was for their rejection of their Messiah, not for drinking, smoking, cursing, fornicating ... etc.

    Paul didn't say "repent of your sins". He said "repent and turn to God. Then he mentioned deeds worthy of repentance, which we should all do, but not to attain salvation.

    Jesus came to the house of Israel. They were indeed called to repent because they were under the law and their sins were keeping them from receiving their King. That was also the message of John the Baptist.

    So in short, the Jews were called to repent of their sins and make His path straight in anticipation of the offer of the Kingdom to Israel, not for salvation. And the gospel post-Resurrection is always to repent of idolatry, rejection of Jesus, unbelief ... etc., not "repent of your sins and you'll be saved".

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