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Thread: Another Pastor commits suicide

  1. #21
    Jack Hayford = Foursquare Gospel. I knew some AG friends who went off to the 4sq. for a while but then came back. At that time I think 4sq was more pente than it is now. We have one church in OKC. Last I looked at theri website, it was pretty much what LionHeart stated.

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Pentecali View Post
    I may be wrong on some of this, but I think Hank Hannagraph was a big influence on this especially in the SoCal scene. The Vineyard Church was in the area too and was somehow very connected to the Toronto revival (I can’t remember the details) and Hank capitalized only on the negative craziness that normally accompanies a revival. I think he eventually joined the Episcopal Church or simile.
    Chuck Smith and John Wimber were both Calvary churches. John Wimber wanted to follow more signs and wonders with the preaching and Chuck Smith wanted to emphasize the teaching of the Word. They went different ways on good terms and remained friends. John Wimber was transformed into a signs and wonders minister after the famous Lonnie Frisbee mothers day meeting where God's power fell. Chuck Smith was raised in a Foursquare church and had reservations about the manifestations of the Gifts he saw as a child. He had a definite bias against any public demonstration of the Gifts in a service. But he spoke in tongues privately and encouraged and prayed for others to receive the experience. Hank Hannegraff was not an influence on Chuck Smith at all. I think in his latter years he distanced himself from Hank.

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  5. #23
    Senior Member Pentecali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post
    Chuck Smith and John Wimber were both Calvary churches. John Wimber wanted to follow more signs and wonders with the preaching and Chuck Smith wanted to emphasize the teaching of the Word. They went different ways on good terms and remained friends. John Wimber was transformed into a signs and wonders minister after the famous Lonnie Frisbee mothers day meeting where God's power fell. Chuck Smith was raised in a Foursquare church and had reservations about the manifestations of the Gifts he saw as a child. He had a definite bias against any public demonstration of the Gifts in a service. But he spoke in tongues privately and encouraged and prayed for others to receive the experience. Hank Hannegraff was not an influence on Chuck Smith at all. I think in his latter years he distanced himself from Hank.
    Thanks for the clarification on this. You seem to know a lot about this which is interesting. I don't know much although I'm in the LA area a lot, much of family came from there, so we would visit various churches or events including a few big Vineyard/Wimber Conferences, Melodyland (once when Benny was there) Angeles Temple (Amie's old church) and others.

    Is it true that Hank joined the episcopal church?

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  7. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Pentecali View Post
    I may be wrong on some of this, but I think Hank Hannagraph was a big influence on this especially in the SoCal scene. The Vineyard Church was in the area too and was somehow very connected to the Toronto revival (I can’t remember the details) and Hank capitalized only on the negative craziness that normally accompanies a revival. I think he eventually joined the Episcopal Church or similar.
    Back in the days of the Bville revival every night Hankie H would spew venom and sensationalized half-truths against the revival, Pastor Kilpatrick and Steve Hill. His biggest rant was all the money they were making off the “false revival”. The worst part was the books Hankie was selling about the very same subject. It was the worst hypocrisy I have ever seen and the cessationists kissed the bottoms of his shoes for it.

    And Hankie? He flipped over to Eastern Orthodox church. Afterall, “orthodoxy” was his idol.

    ETA: Here is the latest. Rather interesting:
    https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/201...-me-from-dying

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentecali View Post
    The Vineyard Church was in the area too and was somehow very connected to the Toronto revival (I can’t remember the details)..
    Toronto was a Vineyard church. Revival broke out there when Randy Clark went there (a few months after attending a Rodney Howard Brown service at Rhema and getting refreshed). Due to the peculiar manifestations there they ended up getting kicked out of Vineyard because Vineyard didn't agree with some of the things happening there. John Wimber himself met with them and told them they were severing ties.

    https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...y8/6t1066.html

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    Back in the days of the Bville revival every night Hankie H would spew venom and sensationalized half-truths against the revival, Pastor Kilpatrick and Steve Hill. His biggest rant was all the money they were making off the “false revival”. The worst part was the books Hankie was selling about the very same subject. It was the worst hypocrisy I have ever seen and the cessationists kissed the bottoms of his shoes for it.

    And Hankie? He flipped over to Eastern Orthodox church. Afterall, “orthodoxy” was his idol.

    ETA: Here is the latest. Rather interesting:
    https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/201...-me-from-dying
    I forgot about the Eastern Orthodox thing. Crazy what some of these critics end up doing. But it even happens to the 'good' ones. Ulf Eckman who was WoF and had a huge Charismatic church in Sweden ended up going Catholic.

    We also had a student at BRSM that preached on college campuses and won a lot of souls, go Roman Catholic after he left school. He was a real student of church history and knew a lot about it, and I think that is what ultimately turned him, reading about that stuff all the time.

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  13. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I forgot about the Eastern Orthodox thing. Crazy what some of these critics end up doing. But it even happens to the 'good' ones. Ulf Eckman who was WoF and had a huge Charismatic church in Sweden ended up going Catholic.

    We also had a student at BRSM that preached on college campuses and won a lot of souls, go Roman Catholic after he left school. He was a real student of church history and knew a lot about it, and I think that is what ultimately turned him, reading about that stuff all the time.
    I just dont get it. “Dry and crunchy” comes to mind. I could handle revival Glory every week.

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  15. #28
    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Toronto was a Vineyard church. Revival broke out there when Randy Clark went there (a few months after attending a Rodney Due to the peculiar manifestations there they ended up getting kicked out of Vineyard because Vineyard didn't agree with some of the things happening there. John Wimber himself met with them and told them they were severing ties
    .

    I remember when our pastor at the time went to a Vineyard conference. He came back and said the hardest thing for him was when there was a healing, John Wimber, instead of saying "Praise the Lord," said "Hot Dog!"

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  17. #29
    Senior Member Pentecali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    Back in the days of the Bville revival every night Hankie H would spew venom and sensationalized half-truths against the revival, Pastor Kilpatrick and Steve Hill. His biggest rant was all the money they were making off the “false revival”. The worst part was the books Hankie was selling about the very same subject. It was the worst hypocrisy I have ever seen and the cessationists kissed the bottoms of his shoes for it.

    And Hankie? He flipped over to Eastern Orthodox church. Afterall, “orthodoxy” was his idol.

    ETA: Here is the latest. Rather interesting:
    https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/201...-me-from-dying
    I couldn’t agree more. That man had such an arrogant spirit. It just poured out of him. I tuned him out years ago.

    Mistakes happen in every revival. Weird things take place. Crazy people show up, but it doesn’t discount the touch of God and what he’s doing.

    Even in many so called Pentecostal spirit filled churches today, they want everything so neat and tidy that they miss God. It’s become nothing more then professional Church.

    .

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  19. #30
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    [QUOTE=Bookman;97978]
    .

    I remember when our pastor at the time went to a Vineyard conference. He came back and said the hardest thing for him was when there was a healing, John Wimber, instead of saying "Praise the Lord," said "Hot Dog!"
    There is the 'famous' John Wimber story:

    John will be remembered for many things, one of which was his unrelenting commitment to "doin' the stuff," as he often put it. As John told the story, he and Carol visited a church early in his spiritual journey, immediately after he had spent considerable time reading the gospel accounts of the life and ministry of Jesus. Following the service, John approached the pastor and asked him:

    "So, when do we do the stuff?"

    "The 'stuff'," said the pastor. "What's the 'stuff'?"

    "You know," John replied, "the stuff in the Bible, like healing the sick and casting out demons. The stuff!"

    "Oh," replied the pastor. "We don't do the stuff. We believe they did it back in biblical days, but we don't do it today."

    With a rather confused look on his face, John could only say: "And I gave up drugs for this?"


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