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Thread: Bethel Redding recent statement has caused much confusion, hence my reply - Michael Brown

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    Bethel Redding recent statement has caused much confusion, hence my reply - Michael Brown

    The Issue is How God Feels, Not How We Feel


    I have often said the contrast between the contemporary American gospel and the biblical gospel is this: The contemporary American version says, "This is who I am. This is how I feel. And God is here to please me." The biblical version says, "This is who God is. This is how He feels. And I am here to please God."

    Consequently, in our modern version of the gospel, "sin" is defined as anything that hurts me or makes me uncomfortable. In the biblical version, "sin" is defined as anything that grieves the Lord or is contrary to His nature.

    The difference between the two concepts is vast. Without exaggeration, it is the difference between life and death.

    It is true, of course, that sin hurts us as well, since, in the end, sin is never worth it. But something is not sinful simply because it harms us. Instead, it is sinful because God says it is, whatever His reason might be.

    That means it doesn't matter if, for a season, we enjoy our sin or if, for the moment, our sin is profitable or pleasurable. What matters is that God says it is sin. End of subject.

    A Confusing Statement
    Recently, a church ministry which has consistently reached out to the LGBT community with the gospel while stating plainly that homosexual behavior is sinful posted a very confusing statement.

    God loves all people, LGBTQ+ and straight. The message of CHANGED has never been "All Must Change." We share these stories specifically for Christians who are unfulfilled in identifying as LGBTQ+. For those of you who feel fulfilled and happy as you are, we love you!

    God doesn't force people to change, and people - including Christians - shouldn't force others to change, either. We stand against any and all forms of shame, manipulation, force, humiliation, or physical harm in so-called "ministry" or therapy.

    CHANGED is a safe space for Christians seeking an alternative to LGBTQ+ as they follow their faith according to their personal convictions.

    https://changedmovement.com/?fbclid=...Sm2YNJjsVbM-_Y


    This ministry, which promotes the possibility of change through the gospel, explained that, "God loves all people, LGBTQ+ and straight. The message of CHANGED has never been 'All Must Change.' We share these stories specifically for Christians who are unfulfilled in identifying as LGBTQ+. For those of you who feel fulfilled and happy as you are, we love you!"

    The statement continued, "God doesn't force people to change, and people — including Christians — shouldn't force others to change, either. We stand against any and all forms of shame, manipulation, force, humiliation, or physical harm in so-called 'ministry' or therapy."

    I understand, of course, that this statement is responding to controversy about so-called "conversion therapy" and the notion that Christians are trying to force gays to change. In that context, some of this statement makes sense.

    And I stand with these precious men and women who have found new life in Jesus, even while being scorned and mocked by the larger LGBT community.

    I also agree that God loves all people, regardless of how they live or identify.

    Scripture is Clear: Be Holy
    But it is imperative we also explain that:

    1) God is not pleased with all lifestyles and behaviors and identities.

    2) We will all give account to Him one day.

    3) Jesus died to forgive us all our sins and to grant us transformation and new life.

    4) While God does not simply call us to change — whoever we are and however we live — He does call us to repent. And you can be assured that repentance means a changed life.


    That's why these sentences are both dangerous and misleading: "We share these stories specifically for Christians who are unfulfilled in identifying as LGBTQ+. For those of you who feel fulfilled and happy as you are, we love you!"

    Does this mean that if you're happy being a "gay Christian" God is happy with that? If you're "fulfilled" in your same-sex relationship, the Lord is OK with it? That you can be active "LGBTQ+ Christian"? Absolutely, categorically not.

    Jesus calls us to holiness, not fulfillment, to obedience, not happiness. He calls us to deny ourselves, not indulge ourselves. And that means taking up our cross. Daily. (See Luke 9:23.)

    That doesn't mean we tell a gay person, "You must become straight!" Rather, we tell them, "You must be holy, by the grace and power of God!"

    It's the same message for everyone. Gay. Straight. Promiscuous. Celibate. Single. Married. "Be holy, because your God is holy!"

    Sin is Sin. Period.
    As expressed by Peter, "Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: 'Be holy, because I am holy.' Since you call on a Father who judges each person's work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear." (1 Peter 1:13–17, NIV)

    This is not coercion. This is not manipulation. This is not peer pressure or shaming. God forbid.

    In that regard, I affirm what the statement was trying to say. I too "stand against any and all forms of shame, manipulation, force, humiliation, or physical harm in so-called 'ministry' or therapy." So does every Christian therapist and counselor and psychologist I know. Absolutely.

    And I certainly believe that God's ways are ways of life. That following Him brings ultimate fulfillment. That walking with Jesus brings perfect peace and inexpressible, glorious joy.

    But let's be perfectly clear. Sin is sin regardless of how we feel about it. Sin is sin regardless of whether it brings us temporary happiness or fulfillment. And all same-sex relationships — by which I mean sexual and/or romantic — are always sinful in God's sight.

    In solidarity with Him, then, we offer everyone forgiveness of sins, acceptance in the Father's family, eternal life, and a radically transformed life.

    That is the power of the gospel. Let us proclaim it without fear, apology, or shame.

    https://stream.org/the-issue-is-how-...t-how-we-feel/

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Maybe I missed it but how is Bethel involved - Is the group Changed under Bethel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Maybe I missed it but how is Bethel involved - Is the group Changed under Bethel?
    Yeah, 'Changedmovement' is Bethel. And to be honest, this post of theirs was like part 5 of several posts. The others I read when they posted them on Instagram were good and I was thinking I'm glad they're publicly making this stand. And then that last post came out and it was worded terribly. Whoever manages the FB page was affirming comments that agreed with them and not saying anything to those criticizing it. I imagine if Bill Johnson or another higher up if they were aware might release a statement. This is some person who just manages the FB and Instagram account and maybe not as mature. I know Dr. Brown reached out to Bethel but from his post I assume nobody has contacted him yet.

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    To add, they were receiving a lot of criticism about 'conversion therapy' before they came out with that part 5 statement. So I assume whoever decided they needed to say something to tone down the backlash instead of just standing their ground.

    Christian Megachurch Receives Backlash After Promoting “Gay Conversion” Torture

    https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/...rsion-torture/

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    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
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    They may have been forced legally to accommodate the law. Conversion therapy is illegal in quite a few states.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...py#cite_note-3

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    I guess you know that Amazon is banning books they consider dangerous examples of "conversion therapy." Two of those books I acquired and edited for the publishing house I worked for. I may have told you this already. It's still irritating me. Those books have helped a lot of people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    I guess you know that Amazon is banning books they consider dangerous examples of "conversion therapy." Two of those books I acquired and edited for the publishing house I worked for. I may have told you this already. It's still irritating me. Those books have helped a lot of people.

    Be careful...you are being watched for subverting the system

    If Bookie gets a visit in the middle of the night its time to flee to the mountains

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    The Issue is How God Feels, Not How We Feel


    I have often said the contrast between the contemporary American gospel and the biblical gospel is this: The contemporary American version says, “This is who I am. This is how I feel. And God is here to please me.” The biblical version says, “This is who God is. This is how He feels. And I am here to please God.”
    I think it is unfair to refer to this as "American Christianity". I firmly believe that the majority of churches and Christians are opposed to "feel good" religion and are firm believers in living holy lives. Just because some mega-churches embrace the feel-good deception (and plenty of mega-churches that reject it and preach holiness) and seem to stand out as main-stream Christianity because they have bigger platforms and TV programs does not constitute them as "American."

    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    [Consequently, in our modern version of the gospel, “sin” is defined as anything that hurts me or makes me uncomfortable. In the biblical version, “sin” is defined as anything that grieves the Lord or is contrary to His nature.

    The difference between the two concepts is vast. Without exaggeration, it is the difference between life and death.

    It is true, of course, that sin hurts us as well, since, in the end, sin is never worth it. But something is not sinful simply because it harms us. Instead, it is sinful because God says it is, whatever His reason might be.
    While there is some truth to the above, it fails overall by presenting a picture of God as One who simply decides what is sin and what is not for arbitrary reasons. God makes it clear that sin in and of itself is destructive to us and this is the very reason He hates it. Furthermore, sin has its origins in Satan whose desire is to hurt God in any possible way that he can and he can only do this by hurting the creatures that God is so deeply in love with. Therefore Satan introduces all kinds of practices knowing that, in the end, they will bring us death and destruction.

    I believe that God would like for people to understand that He hates sin, not because He is a tyrant, but because He wants to protect us. Therefore, He will point out how the stuff that makes us "feel good" is destroying us. He is not condemning sin because He is a dictator that says "my way or the highway".

    God told His disciples not to lead as the worldly leaders do and no doubt because God is not that way. God is not a "because I said so, that's why!" person but One who wants us to understand that holiness and righteousness is a barrier against demonic force who otherwise have a right to invade our lives if we choose to live in their territory. Look at how He tried to explain this to Adam in Genesis 2 and Cain in Genesis 4.
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
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