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Thread: Todd Bentley...

  1. #31
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Luke 11:11-13 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
    Yeah, that's what happens if they actually seek God in the Holy Spirit rather than the minister and what he has to offer. And discern truth from falsehood if the minister preaches false doctrine instead of just swallowing it all since the minister is supposed to be sound. But an evangelist relates his message and ministry to a lot of people that are totally new to the things of the faith and also to people who have just begun their journey.

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  3. #32
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    But if that slave says in his heart, "My master will be a long time in coming, and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him, and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him to pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers (Luke 12:45-46).

    The Roman masters had power of life and death over their slaves. To mismanage an estate would have brought the death penalty.

    But the spiritual significance of what Jesus said here seems to indicate that the servant (leader) left in charge takes advantage of his master's absence to behave irresponsibly, he will get a shock when his master comes unexpectedly and finds that his lot is with the unbelievers. His punishment will depend upon his knowledge and consequent measure of responsibility.

    Todd Bentley is treading in dangerous waters. I would hope and pray that he comes to his senses and truly repents before it is to late.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post

    Todd Bentley is treading in dangerous waters. I would hope and pray that he comes to his senses and truly repents before it is to late.
    Very dangerous. To reject the promptings of a Jealous Holy Spirit in the midst of sin brings a layer of hardness to the heart. The constant shoving away of God Himself has a price that such cannot pay. Soon there will be that point where Todd will be given over to a reprobate mind due to the exchange of truth for a lie (Romans 1).

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  7. #34
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    Fuego asked about demonic healing in the Bible. Simon the sorceror is interesting in that context.

    Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great, 10 to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, “This man is the great power of God.” 11 And they heeded him because he had astonished them with his sorceries for a long time. 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. 13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

    It doesn't say what his astonishing sorceries amounted to. It could be that the NT writers didn't want to promote the works of the devil by discussing them in detail except when they were unambiguously negative. The NT mentions signs and wonders and a fortune teller.

    18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

    Why didn't Simon offer them money for the power to heal people ? Why instead offer them money to be able to impart the Holy Spirit ?

    History tells us that the pagan religions at that time were into healing. The Muslims that came later were not but there are mystics that are into faith healing that are found under the umbrella of Islam.

  8. #35
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Is there one scriptural example in the NT of a demonic healing? Or even the OT as far as that goes. I didn't say sign or wonder (Egyptians throwing down their rods too would be one example). I said healing, healing miracle, healing restoration miracle, etc? The devil isn't just going around healing people that I can see. So I pretty much always reject the 'devil healing' argument. This is God using flawed people due to the gift (which is without repentance) and God honoring his Word when preached.
    I guess first of all the question would be "Do angels have healing power from God?", remembering that in some cases we are dealing with fallen angels. Not that they would desire to heal someone out of any sort of goodness, but to ultimately bring deceit.

    And then there is also the possibility that a spirit of infirmity or any spirit who has entered a person's life and is bringing sickness and disease to them could leave or stop making them sick in order to bring deceit by making it look like someone is operating as an angel/messenger of light.


  9. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    I guess first of all the question would be "Do angels have healing power from God?", remembering that in some cases we are dealing with fallen angels. Not that they would desire to heal someone out of any sort of goodness, but to ultimately bring deceit.

    And then there is also the possibility that a spirit of infirmity or any spirit who has entered a person's life and is bringing sickness and disease to them could leave or stop making them sick in order to bring deceit by making it look like someone is operating as an angel/messenger of light.

    I see no reason why the devil has to follow simplistic rules like "healing is good therefore I cannot heal". Money can be a good thing and he's quite able to furnish his servants with money. What they use it for is a different matter. He even told Jesus that he would give him all the kingdoms of the world and all their glory, is that a good thing ? There was a catch involved, Jesus had to worship him and make him his master. There's always a catch involved when the devil offers something that is good in and of itself. If the devil is capable of actually healing people then he might use that in some cases if there is a huge catch involved.

  10. #37
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    In Revelation 13 there's an account of someone's deadly wound being healed. Whether or not that amounts to demonic healing of a human being becomes a matter of how one interprets the passage. In this passage the term "therapeutos" is used, it's the same term that's used in the gospels about Jesus healing people. In the various antichrist or false Christ passages all kinds of other terms are used about their performing signs, wonders, miracles. Which may include healings though it isn't specified.

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  12. #38
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    Jeremiah Johnson wrote a lengthy response about Stephen Powell's accusations. Apparently, Powell reached out to Johnson when Rick Joyner didn't respond to his correspondence.

    Jeremiah Johnson
    5 hrs ยท

    AN OPEN LETTER TO THE BODY OF CHRIST 8/26/19

    Dear precious saints and leaders,

    In late July, I was sent a detailed report and audio files from Stephen Powell concerning an investigation into the private life of Todd Bentley. I had met Stephen and his wife for lunch on one occasion while speaking at a conference in May, but had no prior history or established relationship with them. Stephen made his intentions with me very clear up front when he sent the files at the end of July. He knew that I had spoken at numerous Morningstar Ministries conferences in the last several years and have built a friendship with Rick Joyner. He expressed that it appeared that his attempts to reach Rick with the report were either being ignored or perhaps Rick just had not seen his investigation yet. Stephen asked me for help in reaching out to Rick to see if setting up a private meeting with him was possible. I believe his intentions and desires were pure. As a young minister of the gospel, I respected Stephen’s attempts to find the appropriate channels to get evidence into the hands of who he understood to be Todd’s covering (Rick Joyner). I spoke with him several times on the phone. What I heard from his mouth and heart was sincere brokenness and concern for the victims and wider body of Christ. I never detected any unrighteous anger, an accuser of the brethren spirit, or bitterness.

    Before reaching out to Rick with any potential false information, slander, etc from the report, I told Stephen that I would read the report myself and seek the Lord. I needed to know two things from Stephen at this point. 1. Have you already confronted Todd on these issues according to Matthew 18. He said, “Yes.” 2. What is your motive in this Stephen? What’s in it for you? Stephen said to me on the phone, “I just want to make sure this information gets into the right hands and that the victims and their families see justice.” It was with these two questions answered for me personally that I began to read the report and listen to the audio recordings.

    Paul Cain and Todd Bentley Prophetic Dream

    I took about two weeks to thoroughly fast, pray, and read through the reports. The tangible burden and fear of the Lord that manifested in my house on many nights as I travailed and cried out to the Lord on behalf of this investigation was like very few I have ever experienced in my life and ministry. At the end of two weeks, I headed to California for a week of ministry. On the night of August 14, now having had the report and audio files for approximately three weeks, I had a prophetic dream in Lancaster, CA.

    In the dream, I began to wrestle a principality of perversion that revealed to me that it was and had been attaching itself to many charismatic leaders in the body of Christ. As I wrestled with it, Paul Cain appeared in the distance. Around his body and wrapped up to his neck was a large python snake and his eyes were plucked out. The next man that appeared before me was Todd Bentley. He too had a large python snake wrapped around his body and up to his neck and his eyes were also plucked out.

    God immediately spoke to me in the dream and said, “And when you see all these things come to pass, know then that I am releasing judgement upon My house. For My people have worshipped these men. My people have failed to discern. In that day, when exposure comes, tell My people to not accuse, to not point the finger, but rather to ask themselves, “How have I contributed to all of this?” For the judgment that shall come upon My house in the days ahead will directly deal with the idol worship of men and ministries that is an abomination before Me.” I woke up from the dream and layed on my hotel floor for several hours and just wept.

    That morning I went to the prophetic conference I was speaking at in Lancaster, CA and shared a large portion of the dream I had the night before. The title of my spontaneous and prophetic message was, “Confronting Perversion in the House of God”. For the record, while I did mention Paul Cain publicly as I ministered, I did not mention Todd Bentley’s name. Some may ask why I did not mention his name and my answer is simple. As I wept on my hotel floor that morning, God was very clear to me that “exposure was coming to LA” and that was all I needed to know. He spoke two things to me very clearly. The first was that “this will not go away” and secondly, “you have not even heard the half of it”. I believe God was not only speaking to moral issues with Todd Bentley but the sin that has been tolerating in much of the Charismatic movement. Without having any previous knowledge of Todd Bentley’s whereabouts in America, I was told 3 days after the conference, that Todd had made a public apology in Los Angeles about some things that happened in the “past” within a day of the dream that I had been given the night before.

    My Email Exchanges with Rick Joyner

    When I arrived back in Florida, Stephen Powell reached out to me again. He said that at this point, Rick had finally received the report and had even written him back but was not interested in having a meeting. Stephen said that he felt at this time that he needed to go public. I asked him to wait 48 hours for me to contact Rick and see where Rick was in the process. That day I exchanged several emails back and forth with Rick and I came to the following conclusions: 1. Rick Joyner has an assignment from the Lord to Todd Bentley. I have no doubt in my mind about this. 2. Rick believes that Stephen’s report is fueled by the accuser of the brethren and the way he was approached with the information about Todd felt pressurized and manipulative. 3. While acknowledging the fact that Todd had committed significant sin in 2013 that caused Rick to sit him down from public ministry in 2013, Rick did not believe that there was any new evidence from the report on Todd regarding present sexual immorality etc. Therefore and from Rick’s perspective, if Stephen’s report dealt with 2013 and prior years, Todd has already repented and been forgiven and there is nothing that needs to be discussed, publicized, or talked about in a private meeting with Stephen.

    After coming to those three main conclusions after talking with Rick, my response to him was the following written via email, “Rick, will you defend Todd privately and publicly based off your own assessment and the information you have been presented or will you now privately and publicly be used by the hand of God to remove Todd from ministry and seek further investigation into these horrendous recordings and reports that are not outdated at all? This is where I currently stand: I believe Todd is a predator, a danger to the body of Christ, displaying consistent immoral behavior all the way up to the present. I do not believe that he is truly repentant, and as I stated before, I am confident that we have not even heard half of the destructive and wicked stories surrounding this man that will come out in the weeks and months ahead. This is my plea. This is my request. Please do not privately or publicly excuse the sins of Todd Bentley. He has been entrusted into your care and now thousands and thousands of lives are dependent upon your handling of this information.”

    Rick responded saying, “First, I have not had any authority over Todd since he was released from the oversight of Bill Johnson and I in about 2012. I was asked to take authority over his restoration in 2008 by Peter Wagner, and the Revival Alliance that Todd was a part of. Even though I considered myself one of the worst people to do this because I was so busy, I agreed if Bill Johnson and Jack Deere would be a part. They did and so I accepted it, but after we released Todd in 2012 I no longer had any authority to dictate policy in Todd's ministry, or "sit him down." Rick went on to say, “We already have evidence that most, and possibly all of the rest of the report is exaggerated, if not a complete lie.”

    The next day Rick went public with his own response to the report that Stephen had now published online for all the world to see. As I watched his video response, I just began to weep and sense the weight of what was transpiring in the spirit realm.

    The question for me personally both publicly and privately now becomes- Where do I currently stand in the midst of having thoroughly fasted and prayed through the report and audio recordings for a month now, receiving a revelatory dream in California concerning the spirit of perversion attempting to attach itself to some Charismatic leaders, and then dialoguing with Rick Joyner concerning where he stands?

    Here Is Where I Stand

    1. I do believe that God assigned Todd Bentley to Rick Joyner to be restored. I believe in restoration according to Galatians 6:1. However, my fundamental issue here is that restoration can and should be done apart from all ministry. I do not believe that Todd was ever properly restored in 2008 and was destined to fall again because his process was flawed from the beginning. Rick’s own words in his video response concerning the publicized report was- “I felt like the Lord showed me in 2008 that this was not the last public embarrassment that Todd was going to have, or mistake or sin.” If Rick knew that Todd was going to fall again, why was he ever released back into public ministry? Is there or was there any concern for the thousands and thousands of lives that have been damaged by this man or what about the victims of the sins he has committed?

    I believe that when a leader in the body of Christ has fallen into sin whether it be sexual immorality, drunkenness, financial misappropriation etc, there is a biblical process to see them restored. Here are the 4 steps in order:

    1. Restored Back to God
    2. Restored Back to Spouse and Family
    3. Restored Back to Body of Christ
    4. Restored Back to Ministry

    Unfortunately in many Christian circles, the central focus of restoration for fallen church leaders has been completely centered on being restored back to preaching, miracles, prophetic etc (ministry). The truth is that if the only reason church leaders who have fallen are willing to repent is so that they can get “back into ministry”, they are NOT REPENTANT and are quite frankly addicted to ministry and people that are addicted to ministry do not need to be in ministry! PERIOD.

    Remember, how quickly we restore fallen church leaders is often a sign that we value them more for their proven gifts than for their proven sanctity.
    David having an affair with Bathsheba was never intended to excuse a Christian leaders affair. Samuel being a mighty prophet but having wicked children was never meant to be an excuse for prophetic accuracy but having wicked children. SIN IN the THE BIBLE WAS NEVER INTENDED TO ENCOURAGE SIN IN OUR LIVES TODAY.

    One of the most grievous sins of the Charismatic movement has been the acceptance of powerful gifting and huge moral flaws as a packaged deal. We have been deceived into believing that we cannot walk in the anointing of the Holy Spirit and the power of God without having huge character issues that must be addressed. This type of thinking does not reflect the ministry of Jesus Christ in any way.

    If we cannot find wickedness and sin in the life and ministry of Jesus Christ, then we are given biblical permission to totally reject it. Jesus Christ was full of the Holy Spirit and power of God yet was without sin. He carried all authority and tremendous influence yet walked in character and integrity. HE and HE ALONE is our supreme example for Christian leadership, especially in Charismatic circles!

    2. I stand by my words that I sent to Rick via email, “I believe Todd is a predator, a danger to the body of Christ, displaying consistent immoral behavior all the way up to the present. I do not believe that he is truly repentant, and as I stated before, I am confident that we have not even heard half of the destructive and wicked stories surrounding this man that will come out in the weeks and months ahead.” 1 Cor 5:11 says, “But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.” I believe Todd Bentley needs to be marked as one who has exhibited a pattern of behavior that is completely contrary to Christian leadership standards for YEARS. I do not believe ministers, leaders, and saints should be found associating with him until he comes to full surrender and repentance that has absolutely nothing to do with being restored to any form of ministry. It would be best at this point for Todd, the body of Christ, and the victims around the world for Todd to close his ministry down.
    We are now in battle to save this man’s soul, not his ministry. God will absolutely tear down ministries to save the souls of the men leading them and this is case in point.

    I do also want to issue a necessary prophetic warning concerning those who are zealous and even thrilled with Todd’s downfall. Beware of the self-righteousness and pride that can overtake you as you find joy in exposing others. Considering recent Charismatic history, it was Jimmy Swaggart who went after Jim Bakker when he fell and it was only a matter of time before Jimmy Swaggart himself fell. Do not partner with the devil in doing his work of stirring up dissention and false accusation in the body of our Lord. Do not let bitterness, unforgiveness, and resentment take root in your heart. Confront sin when necessary, but do it with the heart of God and do it with much tears, fasting, and examining of your own heart. The bible does not forbid judging. However, to the degree that we judge others, we ourselves will be judged.( Matt 7:1-3,1 Cor 5:12) Weep for Todd as I have. Weep for the victims. Go on a fast and ask God to purge anything out of you that is more loyal to the gifting of men than God Himself. This is a tremendous tragedy in the body of our Lord and we must remain humble and fervent in prayer. Remember, the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. (James 1:20)

    3. Rick Joyner as well as numerous fathers in the body of Christ are being given a divine opportunity in this hour to confront the wickedness and immorality of many sons in the Church. Eli the high priest was removed from his position of leadership in Israel because he failed to teach his sons the difference between the holy and the profane. He refused to publicly and privately confront the sons for their sins. While God is highlighting this report and key figures in these days, what God is trying to say is way bigger than this one report. If Rick Joyner will not publicly and privately sit down Todd Bentley until his name is cleared or if found guilty, remove him from ministry altogether, I am officially choosing to separate myself from Morningstar Ministries and will no longer be speaking at their conferences. I absolutely in good conscience cannot support Rick’s decision to not publicly rebuke Todd and seek to restore him privately apart from all ministry. It is time for fathers in the Church to take their stand, model righteousness, and hold to a biblical standard no matter the fallout.

    (cont in next post)

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  14. #39
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    4. When God gave me the prophetic dream with Paul Cain and Todd Bentley, He was very clear. Please read what God said again very carefully, ““And when you see all these things come to pass, know then that I am releasing judgement upon My house. For My people have worshipped these men. My people have failed to discern. In that day, when exposure comes, tell My people to not accuse, to not point the finger, but rather to ask themselves, “How have I contributed to all of this?” For the judgment that shall come upon My house in the days ahead will directly deal with the idol worship of men and ministries that is an abomination before Me.” Some people in the body of Christ are angry. They are upset at some of the wickedness and immorality among church leaders but from heaven’s perspective there is divine judgment being released BECAUSE OF THE IDOL WORSHIP AND FAILURE TO DISCERN. Before we get upset with Todd Bentley and Rick Joyner, we should all be asking ourselves how WE have contributed to so much of the mess that the Church has now found herself in during these last days. Divine Judgement is upon the house of God because we continue to put up with too much. I’m in complete agreement with the words of Dutch Sheets and my prayer is that we will seriously consider them for such a time as this,

    “We, the leaders of the charismatic community, have operated in an extremely low level of discernment. Frankly, we often don’t even try to discern. We assume a person’s credibility based on gifts, charisma, the size of their ministry or church, whether they can prophesy or work a miracle, etc. (Miracles and signs are intended to validate God and His message, not the messenger; sometimes they validate the assignment of an individual, but never the person’s character, lifestyle or spiritual maturity.) We leaders in the Church have become no different than the world around us in our standards for measuring success and greatness. This has contributed to the body of Christ giving millions of dollars to undeserving individuals; it has allowed people living in sin to become influential leaders—even to lead movements, allowing them influence all the way to the White House.

    “Through our lack of discernment we built their stages and gave them their platforms. We have been gullible beyond words—gullible leaders producing gullible sheep. When a spiritual leader we’re connected with violates trust, is exposed for immorality or falls below other accepted standards of behavior, it does not exonerate us simply to say we don’t condone such behavior. Those we lead trust us to let them know whom to trust. We have failed them miserably in this regard. For this lack of discernment, and for employing and passing on inappropriate standards of judgment, I repent to the Lord and ask forgiveness of the body of Christ.”

    Will you take a moment with me today to seriously repent of any way that we have contributed to the rampant immorality and sin that we see attempting to sweep large portions of the Church today? Let’s pray for discernment. Let’s confess our idol worship of men and ministries and seek to turn back to God.

    5. We are about to witness a generation of Samuel’s rise in the earth who will give birth to a pure and undefiled prophetic movement that will not settle for anything less than godly character and integrity that matches anointing. Those who carry this Samuel anointing will confront the spirit of Eli in the land and a might army of Hannah intercessors will help to pray and groan for righteousness and a biblical plumb line to be dropped in the land. The greatest days of the Church are right around the corner. They will be full of an exposing of that which is counterfeit, carnal, and self-serving. There is a fresh release of messengers who have been hidden, consecrated, and forged in the fire with a special assignment for the days we are living in. God is calling the Church back to the place of intimacy and intercession, character transformation, and accountability. The people of God are going to have to choose where their loyalties lie in the days ahead. Will we be loyal to the truth no matter the cost or will we sellout to compromise and the little foxes that spoil the vineyard?

    I myself have made my choice. I pray that you will too. I choose righteousness. I choose the truth at all costs. I choose holiness. I choose the fear of the Lord. I choose what’s pure. I choose what’s noble. I choose to set my mind on things above. I pray for Todd’s soul. I pray great wisdom for Rick Joyner in the days ahead. And most of all, I pray for the millions of people around the world that have been devastated and victimized by the sins of church leadership over the years. May we all find grace, healing, comfort, and a safe place where we can tell our stories in the years ahead. Each of us have a voice and God is going to use everything we have been through for His glory.

    With Tears and Repentance,

    Jeremiah Johnson
    Lakeland, FL
    www.jeremiahjohnson.tv

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  16. #40
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    God immediately spoke to me in the dream and said, “And when you see all these things come to pass, know then that I am releasing judgement upon My house. For My people have worshipped these men. My people have failed to discern. In that day, when exposure comes, tell My people to not accuse, to not point the finger, but rather to ask themselves, “How have I contributed to all of this?” For the judgment that shall come upon My house in the days ahead will directly deal with the idol worship of men and ministries that is an abomination before Me.” I woke up from the dream and layed on my hotel floor for several hours and just wept.
    The dream is in line with the verse I quoted previously from the book of Revelation about Jezebel the prophetess who secuded God's servants to commit sexual immorality. Still people believe that the very minister that the above judgment is directed at, continues to operate in a genuine gift of healing just like he did before he fell and continued in his fall. I know there is tradition for this notion among American Charismatics due to the flawed lives of several well known ministers who seemingly continued to operate in gifts of healing just like before but I think there's a deeper reason. I think it has to do with the notion that faith operates independently from God and/or independently from the person's ongoing relationship with God's Spirit (as Kathryn Kuhlman described in the quote). The notion that faith is really just a force and once it has been acquired then the person can continue to operate in it of his own accord and a gift like healing will operate according to that faith. I think that notion is as erronous as the notion that the anointing and the gifts operate independently of the walk of the minister. And both errors contribute to the propping up of these gifted ministers and the implicit worship of them, as the dream talks about.

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