Thread: It's Time to Start Scaring Visitors Away From the Church - John Burton

This is by John Burton who used to post here some. Really long so just starting with a few paragraphs, but a really good article IMO.
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Many are working hard to attract the wrong crowd on Sunday—and the result is an Ichabod church.



I've met countless pastors and others who say they are focused on revival, but who are misguided on exactly what it is. Their focus is on attracting people to the church, on people getting "saved" and on other church growth strategies.

The problem? The foundational pursuit of revival has nothing to do with church growth or the lost. It has everything to do with the church awakening, contending in intercession and attracting the fire of the Holy Spirit.

The lost didn't show up in the upper room. Marginal followers of Jesus were repelled by the upper room.

Revival isn't marked by a full house. Revival starts in a room that reveals the remnant. The revival that erupted in that roomful of remnants resulted in explosive church growth and kingdom advance.

Premature church growth will result in a multiplication of lukewarm, dead and dying people who have no idea what it feels like to have tongues of fire igniting over top of them...

https://ministrytodaymag.com/leaders...-%202018-09-06

When we pastored Reign of Grace we had him in. After all these years I’m still on his email list. The above...I was cheering a bit.

Loved the article!!! Definitely where MY heart is!!!

We had a pastor for 12 years who gradually changed us from a church on fire, to a seeker friendly church that anything that would offend or make a person uncomfortable was told to stop. I had one lady tell me she didn't even know we spoke in tongues because she never heard it in church. That all happened because there was a mortgage to pay and heaven forbid someone leave and the income go down. There was so much pride, manipulation and control, I thought I would suffocate.

I was on the verge of leaving and God got in my face. I saw Him in my mind's eye where he pointed at the pastor and said, "HE will be gone, and YOU will still be here." I said "ok" cuz how do you argue with that??? The pastor resigned shortly after that.

You might remember me talking about what happened after that... we hired a man who had gifts and anointing but no character and in 6 months the church went from 8-900 to less than 200. That was 4 years ago and we have just turned the corner where we're healed and growing again.

But THIS article outlines the church I want to be a part of... hopefully, we're on our way now...

I'm re-reading Finney's Memoirs and it's just making me so hungry for real preaching, real conviction, and real revival.

Originally Posted by A.J.

You might remember me talking about what happened after that... we hired a man who had gifts and anointing but no character and in 6 months the church went from 8-900 to less than 200. That was 4 years ago and we have just turned the corner where we're healed and growing again.

I'm thinking that when a man has gifts and anointing and no character then the gifts are mostly human in nature and the anointing is mostly make believe.

Originally Posted by A.J.

Loved the article!!! Definitely where MY heart is!!!

We had a pastor for 12 years who gradually changed us from a church on fire, to a seeker friendly church that anything that would offend or make a person uncomfortable was told to stop. I had one lady tell me she didn't even know we spoke in tongues because she never heard it in church. That all happened because there was a mortgage to pay and heaven forbid someone leave and the income go down. There was so much pride, manipulation and control, I thought I would suffocate.

I was on the verge of leaving and God got in my face. I saw Him in my mind's eye where he pointed at the pastor and said, "HE will be gone, and YOU will still be here." I said "ok" cuz how do you argue with that??? The pastor resigned shortly after that.

You might remember me talking about what happened after that... we hired a man who had gifts and anointing but no character and in 6 months the church went from 8-900 to less than 200. That was 4 years ago and we have just turned the corner where we're healed and growing again.

But THIS article outlines the church I want to be a part of... hopefully, we're on our way now...

That’s pretty much what I have come into with the exception of me being the first pastor that will teach on tongues in nobody knows how long, the results, reactions and responses have been wonder-full. These wimpy, trendy, cowardly preacherettes that are infatuated with the applause of men need to see God.

Originally Posted by FireBrand

...These wimpy, trendy, cowardly preacherettes that are infatuated with the applause of men need to see God.

Ohhhhh, "Preacherettes" - Love it!!! -

Originally Posted by Colonel

I'm thinking that when a man has gifts and anointing and no character then the gifts are mostly human in nature and the anointing is mostly make believe.

Not so. Church history has shown us that some very powerful ministers' character wasn't the best, those were real miracles and healing and not 'make believe'. Faith is the key to power, not holiness. Does that mean we shouldn't be holy? No. But a person can still have strong faith but be behind in the character department. Once we realize this we can understand we don't have to be perfect to walk in the power of God. Holiness is our protection from the devil as we walk in the power of God (the prince of this world has come and found nothing in me), it's not the source of true power with God.

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Just as we know he wasn't healed by any power inherent in Peter of John, Peter reveals their holiness was an equal non-factor in the healing as their own power. Again, once we understand this we get rid of one of our self-imposed limitations that keep us from stepping out in boldness to minister. That's what the blood of Jesus is for. We don't have to be perfect to operate in the power of God.

Originally Posted by fuego

Not so. Church history has shown us that some very powerful ministers' character wasn't the best, those were real miracles and healing and not 'make believe'. Faith is the key to power, not holiness. Does that mean we shouldn't be holy? No. But a person can still have strong faith but be behind in the character department. Once we realize this we can understand we don't have to be perfect to walk in the power of God. Holiness is our protection from the devil as we walk in the power of God (the prince of this world has come and found nothing in me), it's not the source of true power with God.

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Just as we know he wasn't healed by any power inherent in Peter of John, Peter reveals their holiness was an equal non-factor in the healing as their own power. Again, once we understand this we get rid of one of our self-imposed limitations that keep us from stepping out in boldness to minister. That's what the blood of Jesus is for. We don't have to be perfect to operate in the power of God.

I agree. To me, the story of Samson is a great illustration of God’s power working mightily to accomplish His purposes even in such imperfect vessels. In fact, the Holy Spirit was not surprised when taking up residence in such rough, imperfect vessels. The anointing is real and sometimes real powerful in the craziest and lowly of people.

Originally Posted by fuego

Not so. Church history has shown us that some very powerful ministers' character wasn't the best, those were real miracles and healing and not 'make believe'. Faith is the key to power, not holiness. Does that mean we shouldn't be holy? No. But a person can still have strong faith but be behind in the character department. Once we realize this we can understand we don't have to be perfect to walk in the power of God. Holiness is our protection from the devil as we walk in the power of God (the prince of this world has come and found nothing in me), it's not the source of true power with God.

@@@That can happen but there is still a greater chance that the gifts are mostly human and the "anointing" is mostly make believe. If we pick out 100 ministers with no character and who are supposedly super gifted and super anointed then most of them will be the hyped up kind.

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Just as we know he wasn't healed by any power inherent in Peter of John, Peter reveals their holiness was an equal non-factor in the healing as their own power. Again, once we understand this we get rid of one of our self-imposed limitations that keep us from stepping out in boldness to minister. That's what the blood of Jesus is for. We don't have to be perfect to operate in the power of God.

@@@Before we can even begin to discuss what that verse means we should note the fact that the quoted translation is a KJV bug. The NKJV, which rarely corrects the KJV much, has :

3:12 So when Peter saw it, he responded to the people: “Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?

That's more akin to piety than to holiness. And even if it had meant holiness then holiness is different to sanctification. None of us are holy in and of ourselves, we are holy or sanctified because Christ lives in us and has worked himself into us, and that is Peter's main point anyway. It had everything to do with the resurrected Christ Jesus, not to do with Jesus' acquaintances that were still alive after Jesus had been crucified, as the people of Jerusalem were likely to think at that time when the resurrection message was brand new.

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