Page 2 of 19 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 186

Thread: Talking to Dead Saints

  1. #11
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ashville, Alabama
    Posts
    5,920
    Thanked: 3402
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    You allude to visions and dreams that are from the Lord, now if they are indeed from the Lord would he have you engaging in necromancy? Communicating with the dead? I don't see any biblical accounts of that happening.

    If we are commanded to stay away (far away) from such things why would He subject you to them? It violates His word.
    But you have not given me scripture for this position...

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Quest For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  3. #12
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,828
    Thanked: 7523
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    But you have not given me scripture for this position...

    I've given plenty of scripture as it relates to communicating with the dead and relying on the Holy Spirit for all things. Try the first post.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  5. #13
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ashville, Alabama
    Posts
    5,920
    Thanked: 3402
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    BTW, here is some NT..

    John 14:26
    But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

    John 15:26
    [Jesus speaking] When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

    John 16:13
    But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

    We have the Holy Spirit. There is no necromancy "pass" in the NT. John on Patmos, who wrote Revelations wasn't chatting with dead people but certainly had a powerful experience without them.
    Yes, that is where our revelation comes...but as we did note, there IS a Biblical instance of Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah and we know the disciples at LEAST saw them talking to HIM..so Jesus necromanced... (I know, necromanced is not a real word)

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Quest For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  7. #14
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,828
    Thanked: 7523
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Yes, that is where our revelation comes...but as we did note, there IS a Biblical instance of Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah and we know the disciples at LEAST saw them talking to HIM..so Jesus necromanced... (I know, necromanced is not a real word)
    Jesus didn't sin, didn't engage in necromancy.

    He was transfigured (transformed into His spiritual identity, God).

    Matthew 17:2-3 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  9. #15
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ashville, Alabama
    Posts
    5,920
    Thanked: 3402
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    I've given plenty of scripture as it relates to communicating with the dead and relying on the Holy Spirit for all things. Try the first post.
    Did you read my response to those?

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Quest For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  11. #16
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,828
    Thanked: 7523
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Did you read my response to those?
    Using the transfiguration of Jesus Christ as a green light to engage in necromancy is pretty shaky ground. Unless you are Christ I would probably look for something a bit more solid, perhaps a few more witnesses?

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  13. #17
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ashville, Alabama
    Posts
    5,920
    Thanked: 3402
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Using the transfiguration of Jesus Christ as a green light to engage in necromancy is pretty shaky ground. Unless you are Christ I would probably look for something a bit more solid, perhaps a few more witnesses?
    Shaky ground or not it is more to the point of the OP..'talking to the dead' that scriptures about using mediums to summon the dead and the reality of the presence and purpose of the Holy Spirit...

    1. I pointed out that God opting to facilitate such an encounter seems to be supported by Jesus' experience but that 2. we are forbidden to seek it out 3. or to approach a medium to do it for us...your proved the last two but did not disprove the first..

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Quest For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  15. #18
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,828
    Thanked: 7523
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Shaky ground or not it is more to the point of the OP..'talking to the dead' that scriptures about using mediums to summon the dead and the reality of the presence and purpose of the Holy Spirit...

    1. I pointed out that God opting to facilitate such an encounter seems to be supported by Jesus' experience but that 2. we are forbidden to seek it out 3. or to approach a medium to do it for us...your proved the last two but did not disprove the first..
    You are mis-characterizing the experience of Jesus. He was transfigured Quest. He wasn't experiencing a dream, vision or trance. You can't re-contextualize that event to fit present day error, communicating with the dead.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  17. #19
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    8,050
    Thanked: 6091
    Just because a person who is dead shows up in your dreams doesn't mean you're practicing necromancy.

    If you go seeking to talk to someone who's dead, that's a problem. Or if you go to sleep, calling on them to come talk to you, you're opening a door you shouldn't. The deceased spontaneously show up in dreams all the time and no one is sinning.

    But if you're inquiring of the Lord about something, and He chooses to speak to you in a dream or vision by using the image of someone who's passed away, I believe that's a totally different ball game.

    However, as a side note, I was praying with a Catholic friend (this is some years ago now) and she called on her dead relatives, now in heaven, to pray for us. I could not come into agreement with that. AT ALL.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to A.J. For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015), fuego (09-25-2015)

  19. #20
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,828
    Thanked: 7523
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    Just because a person who is dead shows up in your dreams doesn't mean you're practicing necromancy.

    If you go seeking to talk to someone who's dead, that's a problem. Or if you go to sleep, calling on them to come talk to you, you're opening a door you shouldn't. The deceased spontaneously show up in dreams all the time and no one is sinning.

    But if you're inquiring of the Lord about something, and He chooses to speak to you in a dream or vision by using the image of someone who's passed away, I believe that's a totally different ball game.

    However, as a side note, I was praying with a Catholic friend (this is some years ago now) and she called on her dead relatives, now in heaven, to pray for us. I could not come into agreement with that. AT ALL.
    This is touching on the topic of "counsel", why would the Lord use dead people (even in a vision) to give you counsel when we know that it is absolutely forbidden to seek counsel from them. Again, why would he violate His own commands?

    The spirit is subject to the prophet so you can't just say...Oh, I was sleeping, didn't ask for that, that's not biblical either. Will dead folks show up in dreams? Sure, but in light of scripture we should reject their "counsel" as not being of the Lord. We are not passive vessels but have faculty, and counsel from the word of God.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Has your Volkswagen Jetta extended warranty expired? Get a fast online quote from CarWarrantyUS today. Enjoy the open road and leave the repairs to us.