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Thread: Beth Moore's Challenge--Lee Grady

  1. #1

    Beth Moore's Challenge--Lee Grady

    https://www.charismamag.com/blogs/fi...-%202018-05-09

    Bible teacher Beth Moore is one of the most gracious, polite and approachable ministers I know. This is not just because of her Southern accent or her folksy Texas humor. She is a genuine Christian who takes her calling as a preacher of God's Word very seriously—yet she's humble enough to know she's not all that. She's just a servant of the Lord.

    Maybe Moore's humility is the main reason she waited until last week to address the most glaring, unresolved issue in the modern evangelical movement. She dared to open the can of worms we all knew would have to be exposed sooner or later. On May 3, she released a blog titled "A Letter to My Brothers," and it rattled denominational offices, infuriated her critics and even got the attention of the good old boys' club.

    Her article, which went viral on social media as soon as it was posted, reminds me of Martin Luther's post on the Wittenburg Door. Beth stuck her neck out further than she ever has, in an act of prophetic bravery, to challenge the spirit of patriarchal pride that has infected our churches for too long.

    "Many women have experienced horrific abuses within the power structures of our Christian world," Moore wrote. "I'm asking that you would simply have no tolerance for misogyny and dismissiveness toward women in your spheres of influence."

    Moore knows what she's talking about. She has been on the receiving end of chauvinistic put-downs and sexist comments since she began her ministry—which started as an outreach to Southern Baptist women. Today she's one of the most popular speakers on the wider evangelical scene, but her success has been accompanied by a lot of pain.

    As Moore points out in her blog, male colleagues have ignored her in public settings or made her the brunt of jokes. Male seminary students have talked down to her. She was even asked to wear flat-soled shoes instead of heels because she might appear taller than another male speaker. And since 2016, hyper-conservative fundamentalists have labeled her a heretic because men listen to her preaching.

    Moore's most vehement critics won't even give her a chance to prove her credibility. When she asked one ultra-conservative group if they had actually researched her many Bible studies to confirm that she teaches heresy, they said no—because it is against their religious convictions to study what a woman teaches. (Never mind the fact that these "scriptural" Christians are maligning another believer, in direct disobedience to Scripture.)

    About a year ago another incident happened that convinced Moore she had to go public with her uncomfortable prophetic message. She had an opportunity to meet with a male theologian whom she greatly respected. She was excited about sharing a meal with him to talk theology. But it didn't go so well.

    Moore wrote: "The instant I met him, he looked me up and down, smiled approvingly and said, "You are better looking than _______." He didn't leave it blank. He filled it in with the name of another woman Bible teacher."

    That's sick on so many levels—but mostly because this crude incident exposes what's at the root of religious resistance to women in ministry today. Too often, even Christian men look at women as sex objects and can't view them as anointed instruments of the Holy Spirit. As a result, we've cheapened women's value and barred them from using their gifts to further Christ's kingdom.

    Like Moore, I've listened to countless women who've suffered because of chauvinism and misogyny in the church. I've prayed with women who were told to submit to their husbands' physical abuse, no matter how violent. I've listened to professional Christian women share how they were viewed with suspicion because they didn't choose the traditional role of wife and mother. And I've wept with women who have obvious gifts of preaching, teaching or leadership but were told they have "a Jezebel spirit."

    Things must change. The church must repent of all forms of gender injustice. We need men and women equally empowered for ministry so we can fulfill the Great Commission. This is not just an appeal from a respected woman minister named Beth Moore. This is a cry from the heart of God, who created "both male and female" in His divine image and commanded them both to rule over the earth (see Gen. 1:26-28).

    The crude jokes and sexist comments must stop. Domestic abuse in the church must stop. The devaluing of women's spiritual gifts must stop. And we must renounce the attitude that says, "If we just ignore this issue, it will go away." God is using the Harvey Weinstein scandal to expose this problem in the secular world—but we have our own ugly version of it in the church.

    Thank you, Beth Moore, for having the courage to address the elephant in the room.

    I'm standing in full solidarity with my sister. The Holy Spirit is speaking through her. I hope we all are listening.

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  3. #2
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Thank you so much for posting this!

    Well written and thoughtful and TRUE!!!

    Women who step out to preach and teach are not rebellious and not controlled by a jezebel spirit or any other demonic spirit.

    They are listening to Holy Spirit, just like men with the very same callings on their lives.

    Freedom to be and do who and what God has called us to be and do is all we ask.

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    Good for her! Stand your ground, Beth!!

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Firstly I totally agree that all ungodly, spiteful and sexist remarks from males leaders towards Beth Moore and other females is against scripture and should never be used by men.

    But what Beth Moore and others are not realising is that men have been subject to abuse, belittling, mocking since the church began from other powerful men who have control.
    It may seem like a gender issue but it is currently happening now to many men and it affects their lives, their marriages and families. It may not be the same degree for men in regards to be taken advantage of sexually but it does happen from closet gay leaders.

    For some reason many people think that a female should be immune to the same vitriol and abuse that men suffer.

    If a woman wants to be in a place of authority then you have to learn....YOU WILL BE ATTACKED and targeted by satan spiritually, mentally and emotionally

    I have read what Beth Moore said she endured but sorry it is not at the same level to what many christian men and women suffer for their faith in non western nations as in the scriptures. One of the articles I read came across as carnal and self serving imo. Many Christians in the past have LOST their influence and position because they stood for truth whereas she stayed silent but now wants to speak out.

    Why didn't Beth Moore say something earlier...why has she waited till now...was it because she didn't want to lose her position if she rocked the boat....she sounds like the Hollywood women who turned a blind eye to abuse so their careers could grow

    With due respect many women go through far worse scenarios than what happened to Beth and they deserve to have the support and spotlight on them ....suddenly Beth has garnered all this sympathy when in reality she could of said something earlier

    I have noticed for a number of years that women who want to be in places of authority which includes the governmental and business level will get more protection from the media and will cry sexist when many men have to soldier on with taking junk for decades. We have with the rise of women in power instead of looking after women many of them are just as belittling and mocking of women below their status


    Just because the world promotes women in leadership it still has to be discerned spiritually in the church to make sure it is motivated by the Holy Spirit not fleshly human desires and emotions of so called 'equality'.

    The greatest DESTRUCTION to society has come from the breakdown of the family unit which men are mostly to blame but the modern western concept of women and equality is not based on scripture but on humanistic principles. The untold damage to children has come because many woman WANT power over the betterment of families.


    Christian women are filled with God's Spirit and can be used in all the gifts and they can minister to many but they have no biblical right to expect positions of authority just because they want them and society says they can have them.

    The vast majority of men are not in positions of power and authority but they can still be used by God to exercise their gifts...the vast majority of men cannot demand a position to preach because they have graduated from Bible College

    I have seen the promotion of women in the last 20 years and in certain circles it has become unbalanced as women are ministering who should not be in places of authority. Many christians cannot discern the gift of the blab to the gift of teaching/preaching. Many male pastors are jumping on the bandwagon because it is the trendy thing to do and makes them look good.


    Someone has to say it so may as well be me

    Let the comments begin

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  9. #5
    Cardinal I believe it has a lot to do with the balance of power historically I'm sorry but although we hear occasionally of men being harassed/abused it has not risen to the same level as women. I don't care if women have the same ambitions as men in terms of leading and authority, harassment is wrong period. On all levels. You think Beth should have stayed quiet? Perhaps because of her position and mindset years ago, she didn't feel "safe". Don't blame her for not speaking up when MANY WOMEN both inside and outside of the church feared retaliation from the "boys club" if they dared speak out. And don't forget Beth, like Joyce Meyer and other Christian women leaders like them are married and are in biblical submission to their husbands. And as far as I know of, they fully support their wives in their ministries. I also have no doubt that if the husbands were led to tell their wives to lay down their ministries (I mean REALLY led by the Lord to request it) their wives would. But I don't think that will happen because they recognize the call of God on their lives.

    All in all there is NO EXCUSE for women leaders in the church being harassed, disrespected or talked down to. The same goes for men. What is really offensive is the idea that Scripture would be twisted to justify not allowing women to walk in their God-given calling.

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  11. #6
    We've lost the fear of God in the church and with it, a desire for holiness. We've been corrupted by worldly lusts. The result: a weak church with no Pentecostal power. Boy, do we need revival in the church. Lord, please!

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaithfulOne View Post
    Cardinal I believe it has a lot to do with the balance of power historically I'm sorry but although we hear occasionally of men being harassed/abused it has not risen to the same level as women. I don't care if women have the same ambitions as men in terms of leading and authority, harassment is wrong period. On all levels. You think Beth should have stayed quiet? Perhaps because of her position and mindset years ago, she didn't feel "safe". Don't blame her for not speaking up when MANY WOMEN both inside and outside of the church feared retaliation from the "boys club" if they dared speak out. And don't forget Beth, like Joyce Meyer and other Christian women leaders like them are married and are in biblical submission to their husbands. And as far as I know of, they fully support their wives in their ministries. I also have no doubt that if the husbands were led to tell their wives to lay down their ministries (I mean REALLY led by the Lord to request it) their wives would. But I don't think that will happen because they recognize the call of God on their lives.

    All in all there is NO EXCUSE for women leaders in the church being harassed, disrespected or talked down to. The same goes for men. What is really offensive is the idea that Scripture would be twisted to justify not allowing women to walk in their God-given calling.

    All harassment is wrong but MOST MEN will never talk about it. The majority of abuse by male leaders has happened towards men because mostly men have been involved in positions of leadership therefore have experienced bullying and harassment. Men are taught to take it on the on the chin and move on but internal damage has been done.

    We have to differentiate between 2 types of abuse towards women
    All abuse is disgusting and wicked

    1. The first type is the worst because it targets females just for being females and they are open to control, manipulation and sexual advances. Too many women have been silenced and they should speak up. Some pastors seek woman out for their own personal deviant desires and this needs exposure.

    2. The second type is when women enter fields of service that once was a male domain. They don't realise that if you choose to go there you will subjected to extra pressures that men have been subjected to. Satan has attacked male leaders do you think because it is now a female leader he will or should back off. Attacks by controlling male leaders towards men have always been occurring and women should not think it is happening just because they are women.

    I am not condoning any abuse but women need to know that if they enter higher levels of leadership they will be subjected to greater attacks and harassment.

    Example...Women now want to enter open warfare as soldiers. Go ahead but when bullets are wizzing over your head don't think just because you are a women it wont happen.

    I read a previous article by Beth Moore and imo I was disappointed in the tone. She made out to be a martyr and gave some examples of harassment which were wrong but they were not extreme like many others have faced. There are women serving the Lord who have been subjected to far more serious and horrible circumstances and they need to have their voices heard before BM.
    For me BM took the Hollywood option when she has been in a postion of prominence for decades and has said zip and now is jumping on the wave.

  14. #8
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    TT, a HUGE part of this is that women have been denied their God called places in ministry simply because they're women - kept out because men cherry picked scriptures and used incorrect interpretations to keep them out of the pulpit and out of ministry other than bake sales and Sunday School. Do we expect to not have the same pressures as men when we step forward? No. But men also need to give up all that "weaker sex" nonsense and let women do what God has called them to do.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    A phenomena that no one is discussing is this....I have observed this for 3 decades
    Because men were in power many abused their position - WE can all agree this is wrong

    The feminist argument then came out we need more women in authority to balance out the men and it will bring more compassion etc etc

    Every institution that has elevated women down the track you start hearing stories of abuse by women in these higher levels whether its govt., secular or the church.
    Not many are seeing the correlation. The more women leave their God given roles the more evil seems to be perpetrated by women. Once when you saw the news it was mostly men committing horrible acts of evil but now it is common.
    Women teachers having sex with their students, pedophilia and terrible murders

    Those with ears to hear need to ask ...WHY????????

    When men and women wilfully change Gods pattern a terrible reaping will occur


    The more women are elevated in positions of power within the church the MORE stories we will hear of abuse by women

    I can tell you 4 specific stories that I know by female church leaders that have resulted in terrible pain to those affected
    1.A senior pastors wife also a female pastor who should never have been given that authority abusing her postion and the church exploded and no longer exists
    2.My wife and I had a meal with last week a female pastor and her husband who could no longer work with the senior pastors wife and preferred to go back to secular occupation
    3.In february this year had to pray and minster to a wonderful christian couple who were abused by another controlling senior female pastor
    4. A senior female minister asked a pastor freind I know to save her church because it was dying. He under God's grace started to regrow the church and he told her to step down as she was the reason the church was dying. So she asked him to leave because she prefered her position more than what God wanted.

    I do not believe these are coincidences but God is revealing to those who hear.

    Scripture is being twisted to tell christian women you can have it all - you are entitled to positions in the church. You are called to preach and teach and be in authority etc etc etc.
    I don't believe men can have it all why would I tell women that

    I believe females can minister and be in leadership... but the church must be lead by the Spirit not the current climate which is the world influencing the church in womans leadership


    Everything I say is not to dismiss abuse by men as they have caused the majority of the problems but humanistic solutions to these issues will not work

  17. #10
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    but the church must be lead by the Spirit
    THAT is the key, whether led by men or women.

    No one is saying that things can't or won't go wrong with women in leadership, but for every point you gave in your post, I can counter with a similar story of male pastors... In fact, 3 years ago, we hired a pastor who exploded our church. It's still there and we're rebuilding, but we went from 8-900 congregation on any given Sunday to less than 200. He was fired, but went on to open a church in our city. Not cool.

    But things don't go wrong because a woman is in leadership, they go wrong because the motives of their heart are wrong. Male OR Female.

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