Thread: Showdown looms over SBC and Calvinism

Originally Posted by Jonathan david

I would note that there has been increasing openness by the SBC to speaking in tongues.

Maybe in theory. But do it and see what happens.

What they hold to in theory they deny practically speaking. :)

Originally Posted by fuego

Maybe in theory. But do it and see what happens.

What they hold to in theory they deny practically speaking. :)

Right. Some years back when Stanley was leader they were ok if their missionaries spoke in tongues in the field but heaven help them if they should slip here in the States. Like, how crazy is that??

Originally Posted by fuego

Maybe in theory. But do it and see what happens.

What they hold to in theory they deny practically speaking. :)

So the deal was that 60% of polled SBC ministers showed the openness, so that in itself creates a certain force of its own. I think a lot of policy adjustments have to do with responding to current trends, and backing off of rule over regulation to keep things moving in a dynamic healthy way.

Yes, when the center of mass shifts toward openness to tongues, etc, there will still be opposers.

But the fear factor will be diminished, as I found out the leaders in a conservative church operated pretty free, considering their environment. I got them to open up that they were really Charismatic, and operated in the spirit, but out of respect not to be blatant, toned things down. The point was, people really saw them as spiritual leaders that had something special, perhaps the best test testimony to draw others in asking them privately about their spiritual walk and practices.

Originally Posted by Jonathan david

So the deal was that 60% of polled SBC ministers showed the openness, so that in itself creates a certain force of its own. I think a lot of policy adjustments have to do with responding to current trends, and backing off of rule over regulation to keep things moving in a dynamic healthy way.

Yes, when the center of mass shifts toward openness to tongues, etc, there will still be opposers.

But the fear factor will be diminished, as I found out the leaders in a conservative church operated pretty free, considering their environment. I got them to open up that they were really Charismatic, and operated in the spirit, but out of respect not to be blatant, toned things down. The point was, people really saw them as spiritual leaders that had something special, perhaps the best test testimony to draw others in asking them privately about their spiritual walk and practices.

This is where I am at, presently. When you dont push or use some of the extremes that turned people off during the 70’s and 80’s, just letting the Holy Spirit move those that wonder, they will see the value of the experience and get hungry for more.

Originally Posted by Jonathan david

I would note that there has been increasing openness by the SBC to speaking in tongues.

Without doubt, we are in the minority, .... but there are a good many Baptists that do practice a "private prayer language," as many like to express it.

I know of several pastors locally that speak in tongues and know of several who are prominent in SBC leadership ....

For a season, the IMB excluded those who spoke in tongues from being candidates for the mission field, but they retracted that stipulation a couple of years ago. (IMHO, the retraction came after a severe drop in funding for the IMB.)

The new president of the SBC is reported to be Calvinist, ... while others say he is not. He does list multiple books authored by Calvinists as a recommended reading list. J.D. Greear pastors The Summit Church in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area. This very large church (around 10,000 attendees) has nine campuses. The Baptist identity of the church seems to be downplayed. I read where some people have joined the Summit who were clueless that it is a Southern Baptist Church.

The position of SBC president is " largely a symbolic, visionary leadership role—SBC churches are autonomous, and much of the major denominational decision-making happens within independent SBC agencies."

Originally Posted by fuego

Maybe in theory. But do it and see what happens.

What they hold to in theory they deny practically speaking. :)

We went for years to a Spirit-filled Southern Baptist Church that would make the Assembly of God look like Episcopalians. We were not booted out of the denomination, but eventually left on our own. (You should have seen the faces of visitors expecting a traditional Southern Baptist service. ).

Originally Posted by Ari

Without doubt, we are in the minority, …. but there are a good many Baptists that do practice a "private prayer language," as many like to express it.

I know of several pastors locally that speak in tongues and know of several who are prominent in SBC leadership ….

For a season, the IMB excluded those who spoke in tongues from being candidates for the mission field, but they retracted that stipulation a couple of years ago. (IMHO, the retraction came after a severe drop in funding for the IMB.)

What I have found in other countries outside of the US, the normally conservative denoms don't necessarily follow the traditional lines.

One of the loudest and strongest voices against Calvinism in the SBC has fallen into disfavor and now been removed from his position of authority. "Prominent Southern Baptist leader Paige Patterson has been removed from his job as president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary amid an evangelical #MeToo moment: a massive backlash from women upset over comments he made in the past that are newly perceived as sexist and demeaning."

Originally Posted by Bookman

We went for years to a Spirit-filled Southern Baptist Church that would make the Assembly of God look like Episcopalians. We were not booted out of the denomination, but eventually left on our own. (You should have seen the faces of visitors expecting a traditional Southern Baptist service. ).

When I worked at a certain place years ago (early 90s), a couple that was dating at the job knew I was a Christian and Charismatic and invited me to their Baptist church. If I hadn't known it was a Baptist church I would have thought it was Pentecostal. Lively music, dancing, people running, shouting, etc. Just never heard tongues. Of course you don't hear tongues in a lot of Pentecostal and Charismatic today anyway.