Thread: Survey - Christians are Heretics

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

You're talking garbage man... you have no clue what's in my heart or anyone's heart and you spend way too much time reading after intellectuals that probably aren't even saved!

I've read what you've posted Farm Truck and I've compared what's written to beliefs that The Church has declared as heresy.

From the heart the mouth speaks (and the fingers type).

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

I've read what you've posted Farm Truck and I've compared what's written to beliefs that The Church has declared as heresy.

The catholics don't go by God's Word, so of course they claim it's heresy

They're the great whore of babylon so go figure

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

The catholics don't go by God's Word, so of course they claim it's heresy

They're the great whore of babylon so go figure

What's heresy?

What "Church"?

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

What "Church"?

You're evading the question.

But I'll be kind to you Farm Truck, which bits of the following do you believe?


Pelagianism: (this keeps coming around as indicated by the number of times its had to be condemned [see above])


It is a heresy dealing with the nature of man. Pelagius taught that people had the ability to fulfill the commands of God by exercising the freedom of human will apart from the grace of God. In other words, a person's free will is totally capable of choosing God and/or to do good or bad without the aid of Divine intervention. Pelagianism teaches that man's nature is basically good. Thus it denies original sin, the doctrine that we have inherited a sinful nature from Adam. He said that Adam only hurt himself when he fell, and all of his descendants were not affected by Adam's sin. Pelagius taught that a person is born with the same purity and moral abilities as Adam was when he was first made by God. He taught that people can choose God by the exercise of their free will and rational thought. God's grace, then, is merely an aid to help individuals come to Him.


Pelagianism fails to understand man's nature and weakness. We are by nature sinners (Eph. 2:3; Psalm 51:5). We all have sinned because sin entered the world through Adam: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned" (Rom. 5:12, NIV). Furthermore, Romans 3:10-12 says, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one." Therefore, we are unable to do God's will (Rom. 6:16; 7:14). We were affected by the fall of Adam--contrary to what Pelagius taught.


Semi-Pelagianism:


Semi-Pelagianism (advocated by Cassian at Marseilles, 5th Century) did not deny original sin and its effects upon the human soul and will; but, it taught that God and man cooperate to achieve man's salvation. This cooperation is not by human effort as in keeping the law but rather in the ability of a person to make a free will choice. The semi-Pelagian teaches that man can make the first move toward God by seeking God out of his own free will, and that man can cooperate with God's grace even to the keeping of his faith through human effort. This would mean that God responds to the initial effort of person, and that God's grace is not absolutely necessary to maintain faith.


The problem is that this is no longer grace. Grace is the completely unmerited and freely given favor of God upon the sinner; but, if man is the one who first seeks God, then God is responding to the good effort of seeking him. This would mean that God is offering a proper response to the initial effort of man. This is not grace but what is due the person who chooses to believe in God apart from God's initial effort. The idea that God saw through time and choose to save those who He saw believe is another example of God responding to the efforts of man and so it too is no longer grace.

You're evading the question.

No, you said "The Church"... what church would you be referring to that makes the rules you're talking about?

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

No, you said "The Church"... what church would you be referring to that makes the rules you're talking about?

They're not "rules" they're identified heresies. After all, you started this topic.

Anyway so you'll answer the question, the Christian Church starting from the time of Paul and continuing till today, except of course for those in it who have been mislead which we know happens all the time else Paul would not have written some of the stuff he did in his epistles.

So which bits of the following do you believe?



Pelagianism: (this keeps coming around as indicated by the number of times its had to be condemned)




It is a heresy dealing with the nature of man. Pelagius taught that people had the ability to fulfill the commands of God by exercising the freedom of human will apart from the grace of God. In other words, a person's free will is totally capable of choosing God and/or to do good or bad without the aid of Divine intervention. Pelagianism teaches that man's nature is basically good. Thus it denies original sin, the doctrine that we have inherited a sinful nature from Adam. He said that Adam only hurt himself when he fell, and all of his descendants were not affected by Adam's sin. Pelagius taught that a person is born with the same purity and moral abilities as Adam was when he was first made by God. He taught that people can choose God by the exercise of their free will and rational thought. God's grace, then, is merely an aid to help individuals come to Him.




Pelagianism fails to understand man's nature and weakness. We are by nature sinners (Eph. 2:3; Psalm 51:5). We all have sinned because sin entered the world through Adam: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned" (Rom. 5:12, NIV). Furthermore, Romans 3:10-12 says, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one." Therefore, we are unable to do God's will (Rom. 6:16; 7:14). We were affected by the fall of Adam--contrary to what Pelagius taught.




Semi-Pelagianism:




Semi-Pelagianism (advocated by Cassian at Marseilles, 5th Century) did not deny original sin and its effects upon the human soul and will; but, it taught that God and man cooperate to achieve man's salvation. This cooperation is not by human effort as in keeping the law but rather in the ability of a person to make a free will choice. The semi-Pelagian teaches that man can make the first move toward God by seeking God out of his own free will, and that man can cooperate with God's grace even to the keeping of his faith through human effort. This would mean that God responds to the initial effort of person, and that God's grace is not absolutely necessary to maintain faith.




The problem is that this is no longer grace. Grace is the completely unmerited and freely given favor of God upon the sinner; but, if man is the one who first seeks God, then God is responding to the good effort of seeking him. This would mean that God is offering a proper response to the initial effort of man. This is not grace but what is due the person who chooses to believe in God apart from God's initial effort. The idea that God saw through time and choose to save those who He saw believe is another example of God responding to the efforts of man and so it too is no longer grace.

I think we have several here who fall into these camps. Didn't know they are official heresies though. I thought they were just variations in doctrine.

Yeah, too bad he cannot speak from scripture references instead of having to post writings of other people's opinions about the Bible... instead of just using the Bible.

This stuff is probably more info from some catholic "counsel" which is meaning less any way since catholics don't even follow God's Word... thy be busy making up their own doctrine by adding to and taking away from God's Word.

Originally Posted by Bookman

I think we have several here who fall into these camps. Didn't know they are official heresies though. I thought they were just variations in doctrine.

First declared heresies 1500 years ago from what I've read.