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Thread: Israel Houghton returns to Lakewood after announcing engagement to Adrienne Bailon

  1. #61
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    The Bible doesn't talk directly about physical abuse as a legitimate reason for divorce. A legalistic application of divorce verses would make divorce on that grounds impossible. But just because people cannot claim their right to divorce based on a verse that declares that right doesn't necessarily mean that it is wrong to divorce. Most Pentecostal believers would accept continued physical abuse as a legitimate reason for divorce. Some demand a divorce based on their spouse smacking them once and they may even have tried to create a situation where that would happen. That may be the reason why the Bible doesn't declare blanket divorce rights in that area. It does in the case of adultery but then physical adultery is physical adultery, there are no shades. Even though the Bible gives people the right to divorce based on adultery there can still be reconciliation.

    There is also the question of non-physical abuse. Some spouses turn into continual psychopats and manage to create a living hell for their husbands or wives without ever applying any physical abuse. This can amount to being extremely controlling or dominating. It can amount to more subtle things and it can be very hard to discern based on external criteria. Some times the non-psychopat is the one who ends up committing an act (doesn't have to be adultery) that seems to render them as the one who is in the wrong. Sorting out who has been doing what and who should be considered the innocent party in a divorce situation can be very difficult.

    Cardinal TT mentioned that most spouses won't accept the return of their spouse after they remarried then repented of the whole thing from the divorce situation and on. I know for a fact that many spouses are likely to forgive a repentant adulterer if they are still married, the adulterer hasn't been trying to force a divorce and the adultery isn't blatant in the sense that "everyone" else already knows about it. What is the difference with the remarriage scenario ? Only that the adulterer has gone much further with things and made what he has done totally apparent to their surroundings. In both scenarios, they have been somewhere else and now they demand to be allowed to return - which fits the scene in Deut 24 even when there is no divorce+remarriage involved. Some times unforgiveness can be a component with restoration scenarios where the offender finally comes to a place of complete repentance. Not that they necessarily have a right to demand restoration, but the result can still be bitterness and unforgiveness.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krystian View Post
    There are no invalid divorces, as posted earlier in this thread the problem was people were separating without getting an actual divorce. You guys are just complicating things and making things up as you go along.

    Let's see what happens if people do you as you two suggest. Wouldn't living together even without sex give the 'appearance of evil'? Then FT wonders if maybe the first spouse will take you back but Deuteronomy says you can't do that:

    Deuteronomy 24:1-4 "When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and she departs out of his house, and if she goes and becomes another man's wife, and the latter man hates her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter man dies, who took her to be his wife, then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled, for that is an abomination before the Lord.
    Did you notice the last sentence ? "after she has been defiled" which refers to the first act of divorce then remarriage (with a divorce certificate, this passage does state that explicitly). So even if the law of Moses permitted them to divorce then remarry, they still defined it as an act of defilement. Which is in line with Jesus' rendition of it here :

    Mark 10:4 They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her."
    5 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female.'[a] 7 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh'; [b] so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."

    What is the context of verse 9 ? A question involving a divorce with a divorce certificate.

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  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The Bible doesn't talk directly about physical abuse as a legitimate reason for divorce. A legalistic application of divorce verses would make divorce on that grounds impossible (Emphasis mine FFO). But just because people cannot claim their right to divorce based on a verse that declares that right doesn't necessarily mean that it is wrong to divorce. Most Pentecostal believers would accept continued physical abuse as a legitimate reason for divorce.
    Because of the wierd and wonderful things the Catholic Church had added to the mix and called it "christianity" one thing that came out of the Reformation was the Five Solas ("Sola" is Latin meaning "alone" or "only") which if adheared to would mean that the Church would not again end up in some of the errors of Rome. One of them is Sola Scriptura or Scripture alone which in part says "The Bible alone teaches all that is necessary for our salvation from sin and is the standard by which all Christian behavior must be measured".

    So although you say that "A legalistic application of divorce verses would make divorce on that grounds (physical abuse ...FFO) impossible" it's not intended to be legalistic but the intent it to ensure that we don't go outside the boundaries of what the Bible allows.

    --
    1) Unfortunately the modern church seems to have forgotten why the Church had to have a reformation and what they learnt from it.

    2) One of the problems is how we use the word "divorce". I would have no problem with someone physically leaving an abusive spouse and even initiating a divorce in civil terms for legal reasons. However I would not consider them divorced in Biblical terms for remarriage unless their spouse committed adultery.

  5. #64
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I agree that people who divorce shouldn't throw themselves headlong into a new marriage. People often do that and the reason why may well be that they were onto someone new long before the divorce was a certainty. A legitimate divorce will never be about becoming able to marry someone new. That is why I become very suspicious about scenarios like in the OP of this thread. They claim that it isn't so and that there is no adultery or fornication involved (relative to the various papers involved) but I suspect that it is (or at least becomes) a matter of getting together with that new one that they found. At this level the conviction power of the Holy Spirit who discerns the thoughts of the heart is needed, the legalistic and anti-legalistic approaches both have their definite limitations. What concerns me is that the result of marriage counselling being applied in this type of scenarios seems to never result in anyone changing their chosen course, it is always blah blah and get on with it.

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    1 Corinthians 7:1-16New King James Version (NKJV)


    7 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:

    It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.

    8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.


    10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

    12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

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