Thread: Israel Houghton returns to Lakewood after announcing engagement to Adrienne Bailon

Originally Posted by fuego

In fairness to Houghton, I have heard his fiancé say that it is not true that she broke up him and his wife, that he was already divorced, or at least being divorced.

Also in the story I didn't see anything about them letting him lead worship:

"...when he attended a service last Sunday."

"SO refreshing to be home @lakewoodchurch this morning sitting next to this Queen @dodieosteen hearing my friend @realjohngray bring a powerful message. @dadra @imstevecrawford @petewilsons & the team led an amazing worship experience. My heart is happy today. #ILoveMyChurch," he wrote.

He was sitting next to Dodie and he names who led the service.

I read the comments on his social media pages. Either I got confused or the people present were posting in faith

A lot of Christian stars start out humble but something changes

Originally Posted by Valiant Woman

I'm glad he's back, I hope he and Miss Bailon get lots of counseling before getting married, and I'm glad his church didn't "kick him to the curb" like some Christians love to do when a family member falls, or appears to have fallen. It's nice to be loved by your church, even when you mess up.

i believe in restoration and being unconditionally loved but I also believe in stepping down, stepping back and being discipled even if it means giving up your position permanently. Israel and others like him leave their families because the grass is greener on the other side. Being in leadership like he was his actions damaged others and his witness became ineffective to say the least. It is a sad commentary on the leadership of the church in America today. Whether he submits himself to correction and whether he will get it in Joel Osteens church remains to be seen. Only time will tell...

Do any of those counselling sessions lead to any of the leaders repenting from their actions as in changing their current course ? I'm not talking about "I'm sorry that I left my wife for that new woman but done is done, we are divorced and there is nothing I can do about it and I'm already engaged to the new woman etc"

Originally Posted by Pentecali

Wasn't it just months ago that he was busted by TMZ having an affair on his wife of 20 years in Mexico with this woman ?

smh

Based on Matt 19:9 I believe that anyone who has been divorced by their spouse for adultery cannot have sex ever again except it be adulterious.

If the church taught this and stuck to it then adultery might just not look so attractive; but while you can commit adultery, wreck possibly two marriages, cause massive emotional problems for people and still re-marry in the church ....

No wondet homosexuals say the church's stand on marriage is hypocritical.

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

Based on Matt 19:9 I believe that anyone who has been divorced by their spouse for adultery cannot have sex ever again except it be adulterious.

If the church taught this and stuck to it then adultery might just not look so attractive; but while you can commit adultery, wreck possibly two marriages, cause massive emotional problems for people and still re-marry in the church ....

No wondet homosexuals say the church's stand on marriage is hypocritical.

there it is!

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

Based on Matt 19:9 I believe that anyone who has been divorced by their spouse for adultery cannot have sex ever again except it be adulterous.

If the church taught this and stuck to it then adultery might just not look so attractive; but while you can commit adultery, wreck possibly two marriages, cause massive emotional problems for people and still re-marry in the church ....

No wonder homosexuals say the church's stand on marriage is hypocritical.

If they have sexual desires they need a spouse. The horrible mistakes of the past can be forgiven. I am not for easy divorce either. Just saying, what God would imprison a man or woman in sexual desire and never forgive him for past mistakes ? No grace there at all !

Originally Posted by LionHeart

If they have sexual desires they need a spouse. The horrible mistakes of the past can be forgiven. I am not for easy divorce either. Just saying, what God would imprison a man or woman in sexual desire and never forgive him for past mistakes ? No grace there at all !

If sexual desire is to be the governing attribute then it would follow logically that gays should be allowed to marry the same gender if they have as little faith in a perceived change in orientation as divorced people have in a restoration of their marriage. I'm not advocating anything here, I'm merely comparing.

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

Based on Matt 19:9 I believe that anyone who has been divorced by their spouse for adultery cannot have sex ever again except it be adulterious...

Wrong, wrong, wrong...anyone can divorce for any reason (its not God's best but it can be done) and remarry. The passage you're referring to is speaking about remarrying WITHOUT first divorcing (putting someone away/kicking them out)... then of course its adultery because you're still married to someone else.

People need to do a real bible study on divorce and stop parroting religious traditions that are wrong and try to put people in bondage. There are many sources readily available that plainly explain the true meaning of those verses.

I don't have the time or desire to get into this subject again but I will give you some sources that explain it correctly:



...in Malachi 2:14-16. The husbands were not divorcing but were just separating “putting away” their wives and remarrying other women without ever getting a divorce. This is what made God so angry. I believe the husbands knew that if they were not lawfully divorced (by giving their wife a Divorce Certificate) it gave them an excuse not to give back to the wife (or her father) the “dowry of the bride” that they paid for her when they were first married. This could of course have been a great price. However, the wives could not marry someone else without committing adultery unless they had a Certificate of Divorce that Moses COMMANDED their husbands to give when divorcing — which brings us to the book of Matthew 19:3.

(Note: The Scriptures of Malachi 2:10-16, Matthew 19:3-12, Matthew 5:31-32, Luke 16:18 and Mark 10:2-12 are all about the same issue—of being separated and getting married to someone else without first getting divorced. Therefore, this teaching will be sufficient without going over the other Scriptures because the Greek words for divorce and married are all the same in these passages in the New Testament.)

“The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, ‘ Is it lawful for a man to separate [from] (put away) his wife [without divorcing her] for just any reason?’ And He answered and said to them, 'Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female', and said, 'for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?' So then they are no longer two but one flesh.’”

Jesus is saying haven't you read that if a married couple separates without an actual divorce, they are still "joined" as "one flesh"? And if they remarry in that condition they are in adultery? In the beginning the Lord never wanted the husband and wife to separate without a divorce. Otherwise, they could not become another man's wife or another woman's husband (See Deuteronomy 24:1,2).

“Therefore what God has joined together, let not man SEPARATE.” (Jesus is talking about being SEPARATED and marrying another while still being married, NOT divorced.) They said to Him, 'Why then did Moses COMMAND to give a Certificate of Divorce, AND to put her away (separate)?'

http://www.divorcehope.com/bookofmat...biblestudy.htm



...Most people are taught this means the wife should not divorce her husband, but if she does, she must remain single for the rest of her life, or else come back and remarry her former husband. However, as the context shows, this passage is referring to the problem of separation , rather than to divorce. The Greek word apostasion is not use here.

The word translated "unmarried" is agamos, the negative form of gamos. Gamos sometimes refers to the STATE of being married, but it usually refers to the occasion when the marriage contract is put into effect--that is, the ACT OF GETTING MARRIED.

Agamos, then, being the negative form of the word gamos, can mean either: (1) the unmarried STATE, or (2) the ACT of not drawing up a marriage contract with someone.

The way it is translated in the King James version, verse 11 is assumed to mean, "let her remain in the unmarried STATE." However, it is more likely to mean, "Let her not get married to anyone else," since she is only separated from her husband.

So if we were to paraphrase this passage, we would see that Paul is saying, "let not the wife separate from her husband, thinking that this is pleasing to [Yahweh]. But if she does, she should not get married to anyone else, because she is still under contract with her original husband.

Later in this same chapter, Paul does deal with the question of divorce and remarriage. He does not use the technical words for divorce and remarriage, but rather the descriptive terms, "bound" and "loosed." To be bound by Law means to be married by contract; to be loosed means to be loosed from that contract (i.e., divorced or widowed). 1 Cor. 7:27, 28 reads:

27 Art thou bound (by law) unto a wife? Seek not to be loosed (from the bonds of marriage). Art thou loosed from a wife? Seek not a wife.
28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned...

http://www.truthofyahweh.org/divorce.htm

Originally Posted by krystian

Wrong, wrong, wrong...anyone can divorce for any reason (its not God's best but it can be done) and remarry. The passage you're referring to is speaking about remarrying WITHOUT first divorcing (putting someone away/kicking them out)... then of course its adultery because you're still married to someone else.

People need to do a real bible study on divorce and stop parroting religious traditions that are wrong and try to put people in bondage. There are many sources readily available that plainly explain the true meaning of those verses.

I don't have the time or desire to get into this subject again but I will give you some sources that explain it correctly:



...in Malachi 2:14-16. The husbands were not divorcing but were just separating “putting away” their wives and remarrying other women without ever getting a divorce. This is what made God so angry. I believe the husbands knew that if they were not lawfully divorced (by giving their wife a Divorce Certificate) it gave them an excuse not to give back to the wife (or her father) the “dowry of the bride” that they paid for her when they were first married. This could of course have been a great price. However, the wives could not marry someone else without committing adultery unless they had a Certificate of Divorce that Moses COMMANDED their husbands to give when divorcing — which brings us to the book of Matthew 19:3.

(Note: The Scriptures of Malachi 2:10-16, Matthew 19:3-12, Matthew 5:31-32, Luke 16:18 and Mark 10:2-12 are all about the same issue—of being separated and getting married to someone else without first getting divorced. Therefore, this teaching will be sufficient without going over the other Scriptures because the Greek words for divorce and married are all the same in these passages in the New Testament.)

“The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, ‘ Is it lawful for a man to separate [from] (put away) his wife [without divorcing her] for just any reason?’ And He answered and said to them, 'Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female', and said, 'for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?' So then they are no longer two but one flesh.’”

Jesus is saying haven't you read that if a married couple separates without an actual divorce, they are still "joined" as "one flesh"? And if they remarry in that condition they are in adultery? In the beginning the Lord never wanted the husband and wife to separate without a divorce. Otherwise, they could not become another man's wife or another woman's husband (See Deuteronomy 24:1,2).

“Therefore what God has joined together, let not man SEPARATE.” (Jesus is talking about being SEPARATED and marrying another while still being married, NOT divorced.) They said to Him, 'Why then did Moses COMMAND to give a Certificate of Divorce, AND to put her away (separate)?'

http://www.divorcehope.com/bookofmat...biblestudy.htm



...Most people are taught this means the wife should not divorce her husband, but if she does, she must remain single for the rest of her life, or else come back and remarry her former husband. However, as the context shows, this passage is referring to the problem of separation , rather than to divorce. The Greek word apostasion is not use here.

The word translated "unmarried" is agamos, the negative form of gamos. Gamos sometimes refers to the STATE of being married, but it usually refers to the occasion when the marriage contract is put into effect--that is, the ACT OF GETTING MARRIED.

Agamos, then, being the negative form of the word gamos, can mean either: (1) the unmarried STATE, or (2) the ACT of not drawing up a marriage contract with someone.

The way it is translated in the King James version, verse 11 is assumed to mean, "let her remain in the unmarried STATE." However, it is more likely to mean, "Let her not get married to anyone else," since she is only separated from her husband.

So if we were to paraphrase this passage, we would see that Paul is saying, "let not the wife separate from her husband, thinking that this is pleasing to [Yahweh]. But if she does, she should not get married to anyone else, because she is still under contract with her original husband.

Later in this same chapter, Paul does deal with the question of divorce and remarriage. He does not use the technical words for divorce and remarriage, but rather the descriptive terms, "bound" and "loosed." To be bound by Law means to be married by contract; to be loosed means to be loosed from that contract (i.e., divorced or widowed). 1 Cor. 7:27, 28 reads:

27 Art thou bound (by law) unto a wife? Seek not to be loosed (from the bonds of marriage). Art thou loosed from a wife? Seek not a wife.
28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned...

http://www.truthofyahweh.org/divorce.htm

Anyone can divorce and remarry for any reason? I know by the law of the land that is true but scripturally?

I definitely don't agree with that on any level