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Thread: When should we leave a church ?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    That sounds like they had a tight hierarchy going, with Copeland above them as God's anointed whose words and deeds were not to be questioned and then themselves in the same position in relation to their congregations. Not that Copeland necessarily saw things the same way. This was not my impression of wof 25 years ago, did things collapse into that after Hagin died ?

  2. #32
    Senior Member wheeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I think it had something to do with his other associate who was a female who just up and quit, and I think he was saying that we shouldn't have any contact with her, etc, and I disagreed with that. And I did it civilly. I was just voicing my opinion in a respectful manner.

    This is just my own opinion, but back then a lot of WOF pastors ruled with an iron hand because of how Copeland would talk about how he handled certain situations with employees, etc. Copeland wouldn't take any 'gruff' from anybody and a lot of it had to do with having strife in his ministry which he absolutely wouldn't allow, which I think has some legitimacy. I think the pastors extrapolated how he handles things in a ministry/business into something that wasn't intended into their churches. I mean many many WOF pastors had that same persona back in the day. Remember I was/am WOF and it didn't affect how I believed doctrine wise, but this is really an objective opinion. I have no reason to bash WOF.

    many of the old school still do rule with a iron fist. Its not biblical but thats beside the point. i saw this happen at oru with the televangelists who would call down students during the campus family weekend we had every year. copeland once jump all over a young man who fell asleep and told him to get out of howard auditorium. the guy was really embarrassed. grace is not one of copelands strong suits. he didn't make any friends that day! needless there was a low hum as many of the students ignored him talking with each other the rest of the weekend.... now i am sure some of you will throw a fit on what i said (my fox hole is dug) but my point is the days of this type of behavior is over with...

  3. #33
    Senior Member wheeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    That sounds like they had a tight hierarchy going, with Copeland above them as God's anointed whose words and deeds were not to be questioned and then themselves in the same position in relation to their congregations. Not that Copeland necessarily saw things the same way. This was not my impression of wof 25 years ago, did things collapse into that after Hagin died ?
    i agree with you guy. i was there when the WOF movement started at oru and it was nothing of what you see now. the men i knew were humble and walked with grace. i loved kenneth hagin as his view of the WOF doctrine was the way i looked at it. there was no abuse of the sheep. I still believe this way today. it started changing my last year at oru.... guys like fred price, copeland, jim bakker, richard roberts and a few more started moving it in the direction of the prosperity doctrine. they were heavy handed as well. this change in WOF doctrine where control was part of it and also helped launched splinter movements like the discipleship movement in the 80's which wrecked alot of homes and churches. men like don basham and charles simpson were involved and later repented for this movement.....

  4. #34
    Wheeze, The discipleship movement began in the 70's.

  5. #35
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post
    Wheeze, The discipleship movement began in the 70's.
    Yeah, I'm not sure the discipleship movement came out of WOF. I got saved in '77 and I know it seemed as if it was waning when I found out about it. I could be wrong.

  6. #36
    Senior Member wheeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post
    Wheeze, The discipleship movement began in the 70's.
    not where i was at... the covenant churches here began in the early 80's following the early movement but this move was more harmful than the preceding one... the shepherd movement...

  7. #37
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheeze View Post
    i agree with you guy. i was there when the WOF movement started at oru and it was nothing of what you see now. the men i knew were humble and walked with grace. i loved kenneth hagin as his view of the WOF doctrine was the way i looked at it. there was no abuse of the sheep. I still believe this way today. it started changing my last year at oru.... guys like fred price, copeland, jim bakker, richard roberts and a few more started moving it in the direction of the prosperity doctrine. they were heavy handed as well. this change in WOF doctrine where control was part of it and also helped launched splinter movements like the discipleship movement in the 80's which wrecked alot of homes and churches. men like don basham and charles simpson were involved and later repented for this movement.....
    I think Price was another one that was responsible, and could have been even more than Copeland now that you mention him. He was a pastor and 'ruled' with a pretty heavy hand too. If I got any hint of that from a pastor now I would be gone in a NY minute. I don't have time for that stuff any more.

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  9. #38
    Senior Member wheeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure the discipleship movement came out of WOF. I got saved in '77 and I know it seemed as if it was waning when I found out about it. I could be wrong.
    the heavy handed pastoral role of the WOF doctrine had a tremendous influence on the movement... i have a friend who like myself was involved in it in the early 80's and we saw the shepherd movement take cues from the WOF movement...

  10. #39
    Senior Member wheeze's Avatar
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    just so you guys will know i do not know it all. i am only speaking from my personal experience with it and what i saw. Its just my personal observations and knowing those who were involved in it. I've been known to b wrong (well at least once)....

  11. #40
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Well I'm not bashing at all. I'm just speaking candidly about what I experienced with many WOF pastors back in the day. It's just a fact that's how it was. Now I'm sure there's many that had those pastors would defend how they acted to the death, but many were hurt and 'driven' out of church by pastors and how they 'ruled'.

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    wheeze (07-05-2016)

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