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Thread: T D Jakes and Gay Marriage

  1. #41
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaithfulOne View Post
    A clarification of the clarification...

    https://www.facebook.com/bishopjakes...53762174043322

    Although the vast majority of people seemed to understand my previous post on this subject, a few seemed to question what was in their view a veil of ambiguity on the same-sex marriage statement.

    I realize that there are those that will never be satisfied. But in good faith that these residual critics might have missed my true intent I provide additional clarity here.

    A lot has been made of a brief interview that I conducted with HuffPo TV Live’s Marc Lamont Hill on Monday, August 3 to promote my latest book, Destiny.

    After dialoging on the book, the interviewer asked a question, one of several pulled from the blogosphere about whether the “black church” and LGBT community could co-exist.

    From the answer that I gave within the context that I was asked and within the time constraints imposed by live television, I responded.

    Unfortunately, my answer became a flashpoint, spurring a virulent diatribe in cyber-Christian-land demanding that I reaffirm my stance on same-sex marriage -- a topic that was never even broached in the HuffPo interview. In my nearly 40 years of ministry, and two decades of marketing books, I have learned that a two-minute interview does not a sermon make.

    Such brief commentary is inadequate to explain complex theological principles or to evaluate societal norms from a biblical perspective.

    This is especially true of secular audiences who are not obliged to understand or adhere to Scripture as the moral arbiter for their lives.

    What I did say is that I am “evolving” – from the Latin, ēvolvere meaning to “unroll, open, and unfold.”

    The inference is that I am “developing” in my approach to the LGBT community that I may share the Gospel most effectively so as to lead “whosoever will” to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Granted, “evolving” is a non-church word.

    It has come to my attention that for some, "evolving" is reminiscent of the term used by the president when he shifted his position on marriage, signaling a flip-flop, six months ahead of the 2012 election. That was never the intent of my comment—nor is it representative of my convictions on this subject.

    Rather than play “whack-a-mole” with the online Christian media, I have decided to reinforce my statement to further ensure that my words are not unintentionally or intentionally misconstrued to gain more eyeballs on their various sites or confuse any who missed the point of the previous transmission!

    First, my beliefs about sexuality and marriage—as with all topics—is based on Scripture. (2 Timothy 3:16) I firmly believe that marriage is ordained by God as a union between a man and a woman. (Ephesians 5:31) My stance on the topic has never wavered. It is fixed, steadfast and well documented.

    Nor am I ashamed of the gospel, for fear of appearing politically correct. It is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes.

    I believe that all sex outside of that sacred union is sin and that would include but is not limited to, homosexuality. I use Romans 1:24-29 and Hebrews 13:4 as the Scriptural basis for what I believe. I believe in transforming power of God’s Word. It is the ultimate aim of Truth.

    I also believe in balancing that truth with grace, so that the word becomes the personification of Jesus Christ, his love, mercy and compassion. (John 1:14)

    A friend of mine once said that the gospel is advanced among friends. We cannot share faith with those with whom we will not engage.

    Because truth absent of grace fails to exemplify my heart or the heart of the Father, I draw the line at the extra-biblical exercise of calling people names, ostracizing or humiliating them because our beliefs fall on opposite sides of the spiritual chasm.

    That attitude hasn’t shifted the tide in the battle for men’s souls in the last 30 years.

    With the recent Supreme Court ruling we’ve entered an age where the boundaries between Church and State are crystal clear.

    My hope is that the church will always be “evolving” in how we address and minister to the LGBT community in ways that are in line with our biblically-based beliefs without losing sight of Christ like compassion.

    That way of communicating isn't lack of courage, but exhibits the grace and love and forgiveness that reflects God's divine nature! (Ephesians 2:4-5)

    I love all people—even those with whom I do not agree. I do not support same sex-marriage. But it is entirely possible to "speak the truth in love" and I shall never stop trying to do just that.
    Maybe he should use less PC language so he can be more clearly understood without all the 'after the fact' disclaimers...

    I don't recall Jesus ever saying, 'Oh wait, let me EXPLAIN!'

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  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Well as long as there are sinners around, they can't be expected to hold to Christian standards, at least not thoroughly..
    Not true ..Non Christians hold to Christian Ethos all the time . One doesnt have to be Christian to subscribe to a Christian Moral Viewpoint


    And when there is a non-Christian majority things get more difficult..
    Not neccessarily ...

    There is no way the United States is even close to having a Christian majority. I'm talking about actual born again Christians, not nominals. When revival has produced an actual majority then it will be easier to envision a society where standards are more Christian and less general. But it is a sad thing that the gay agenda has managed to change the views of non-Christians in the West on that matter to the degree that it has. Then carnal Christians follow suit of course.
    problem here is that some and I dont think they are by any means the majority (But they are loud and influential) are hostile to Christian Ethos

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  5. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by FaithfulOne View Post
    A clarification of the clarification...

    https://www.facebook.com/bishopjakes...53762174043322

    Although the vast majority of people seemed to understand my previous post on this subject, a few seemed to question what was in their view a veil of ambiguity on the same-sex marriage statement.

    I realize that there are those that will never be satisfied. But in good faith that these residual critics might have missed my true intent I provide additional clarity here.

    A lot has been made of a brief interview that I conducted with HuffPo TV Live’s Marc Lamont Hill on Monday, August 3 to promote my latest book, Destiny.

    After dialoging on the book, the interviewer asked a question, one of several pulled from the blogosphere about whether the “black church” and LGBT community could co-exist.

    From the answer that I gave within the context that I was asked and within the time constraints imposed by live television, I responded.

    Unfortunately, my answer became a flashpoint, spurring a virulent diatribe in cyber-Christian-land demanding that I reaffirm my stance on same-sex marriage -- a topic that was never even broached in the HuffPo interview. In my nearly 40 years of ministry, and two decades of marketing books, I have learned that a two-minute interview does not a sermon make.

    Such brief commentary is inadequate to explain complex theological principles or to evaluate societal norms from a biblical perspective.

    This is especially true of secular audiences who are not obliged to understand or adhere to Scripture as the moral arbiter for their lives.

    What I did say is that I am “evolving” – from the Latin, ēvolvere meaning to “unroll, open, and unfold.”

    The inference is that I am “developing” in my approach to the LGBT community that I may share the Gospel most effectively so as to lead “whosoever will” to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Granted, “evolving” is a non-church word.

    It has come to my attention that for some, "evolving" is reminiscent of the term used by the president when he shifted his position on marriage, signaling a flip-flop, six months ahead of the 2012 election. That was never the intent of my comment—nor is it representative of my convictions on this subject.

    Rather than play “whack-a-mole” with the online Christian media, I have decided to reinforce my statement to further ensure that my words are not unintentionally or intentionally misconstrued to gain more eyeballs on their various sites or confuse any who missed the point of the previous transmission!

    First, my beliefs about sexuality and marriage—as with all topics—is based on Scripture. (2 Timothy 3:16) I firmly believe that marriage is ordained by God as a union between a man and a woman. (Ephesians 5:31) My stance on the topic has never wavered. It is fixed, steadfast and well documented.

    Nor am I ashamed of the gospel, for fear of appearing politically correct. It is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes.

    I believe that all sex outside of that sacred union is sin and that would include but is not limited to, homosexuality. I use Romans 1:24-29 and Hebrews 13:4 as the Scriptural basis for what I believe. I believe in transforming power of God’s Word. It is the ultimate aim of Truth.

    I also believe in balancing that truth with grace, so that the word becomes the personification of Jesus Christ, his love, mercy and compassion. (John 1:14)

    A friend of mine once said that the gospel is advanced among friends. We cannot share faith with those with whom we will not engage.

    Because truth absent of grace fails to exemplify my heart or the heart of the Father, I draw the line at the extra-biblical exercise of calling people names, ostracizing or humiliating them because our beliefs fall on opposite sides of the spiritual chasm.

    That attitude hasn’t shifted the tide in the battle for men’s souls in the last 30 years.

    With the recent Supreme Court ruling we’ve entered an age where the boundaries between Church and State are crystal clear.

    My hope is that the church will always be “evolving” in how we address and minister to the LGBT community in ways that are in line with our biblically-based beliefs without losing sight of Christ like compassion.

    That way of communicating isn't lack of courage, but exhibits the grace and love and forgiveness that reflects God's divine nature! (Ephesians 2:4-5)

    I love all people—even those with whom I do not agree. I do not support same sex-marriage. But it is entirely possible to "speak the truth in love" and I shall never stop trying to do just that.
    Quite Defensive I must say and Gheesh ..such contempt for "Online Christian media" and "Christians in Cyber Land" whose only motive in this is "to gain more eyeballs on their various sites" according to him


    Ok so he wants to reach the secular world and the gays ..fine but do you really need to sacrifice your brethren and your sheep in the process .. ????

    Something stinks here and I have a feeling this is not the end of the matter .. Carlton Pearson eerily comes to mind

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  7. #44
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Not true ..Non Christians hold to Christian Ethos all the time . One doesnt have to be Christian to subscribe to a Christian Moral Viewpoint



    Not neccessarily ...


    problem here is that some and I dont think they are by any means the majority (But they are loud and influential) are hostile to Christian Ethos
    I said "thoroughly", not "at all".

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  9. #45
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    Yes it is possible to speak the truth in love...we just have to be clear about that truth, ESPECIALLY in this cyber tech world we live in...I say especially only in the context of it's speed in impacting so many so fast..

    50 years ago no one would have even known TD Jakes said such a thing probably...may not even know TD Jakes for that matter..but now in an interview that one can EXPECT to have a liberal bias or at least be read by those that do, men and women of God need to have their TRUTH clear...

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  11. #46
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I'm not saying that Jakes did a good job but it can be very difficult when interviewed to avoid being painted in some direction. Journalists can be extremely clever in their selective quoting, emphasis and comments. Some times they are commissioned to create a certain type of story or impression regardless of what they get.

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  13. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Quite Defensive I must say and Gheesh ..such contempt for "Online Christian media" and "Christians in Cyber Land" whose only motive in this is "to gain more eyeballs on their various sites" according to him


    Ok so he wants to reach the secular world and the gays ..fine but do you really need to sacrifice your brethren and your sheep in the process .. ????

    Something stinks here and I have a feeling this is not the end of the matter .. Carlton Pearson eerily comes to mind
    What I'm thinking as well.

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  15. #48
    I wonder how he justifies, from scripture, his "biblical support" of Obama, particularly on the abortion issue. In light of all of the outrageous videos that have been released, I have to say.....as VW so articulately stated pages back....I truly wonder why in the heck Jakes is so darn prickly when it comes to Obama, as well???

    Now look..at the end of the day, it's one thing to to have concerns about abortion but not make it a hill to die on. I get it. But when Obama has refused to support legislation that would protect born alive infants...and now here's what should have done it for Jakes especially. When Obama said, "God bless PP, they are doing God's work" (or something to that effect), Jakes should have had the biggest check in his spirit EVER. What PP has done in the name of "educating our youth" is deplorable, and what they have done to the least protected class among us is as bad as anything Hitler did, and in the name of making a $.

    Christians that post here ALWAYS KNEW what Obama was. Even in the face of scathing criticism and mocking from certain posters that were not as discerning, we always knew what Obama was. A socialist/Marxist community activist whose goals going back many years, was to "pay back" a certain segment of the US for the sins of the past, restructure the economy, and who cares who gets wounded in battle? And oddly enough, the black community has suffered the worst under his policies.

    How Jakes could be so undiscerning in the face of facts and evidence is flabbregasting.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Quite Defensive I must say and Gheesh ..such contempt for "Online Christian media" and "Christians in Cyber Land" whose only motive in this is "to gain more eyeballs on their various sites" according to him


    Ok so he wants to reach the secular world and the gays ..fine but do you really need to sacrifice your brethren and your sheep in the process .. ????

    Something stinks here and I have a feeling this is not the end of the matter .. Carlton Pearson eerily comes to mind

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  17. #49


    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    I want to have sympathy but having a difficult time right now. Rather than saying, "I could have been less ambiguous. I apologize for all of the misunderstanding about what I meant" he goes on to chastize those who misunderstood his ambiguity. It is easier to be understood when you get straight to the point instead of using language like "evolved and evolving" (similar statements that President Obama made).

    Then his unapologetic support for a president who unashamedly promotes LGBT has been of no help to him at all. If preachers are going to get on all types of secular TV programs then how about being straightforward and using language that is clearly understood so you don't have to give multiple clarifications? How about apologizing when you are misunderstood? How about stop supporting politicians and defending them when they go against what you claim are your values?

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  19. #50
    Good post Catchy. Funny thing is, even to this day I still catch flack from some in the Black community for my outspoken disagreement with the current president, though many have finally come around to understanding why I have been so opposed to him though their's have barely waned.

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