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Thread: T D Jakes and Gay Marriage

  1. #21
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    Men of God are supposed to use BIBLICAL terms so that their stance is clear. Otherwise one should not complain that one is misunderstood if one chooses to be vague - unless, of course, that is one's intention.
    "evolve" has become this "super cool" term that everyone is using about anything and most of them don't really know what it means.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I understand Jakes' way of thinking in terms of rights set up by the government. With abortion it is not that simple because it gives someone the right to infringe upon someone else's natural rights (the unborn baby). With gay marriage the act doesn't directly affect anyone else than the two in question. It is possible for a Christian to get along with a secular society where most things that are consentual are allowed as long as there is freedom of association and freedom of speech. There is a technicality involved with marriage since that term (at least traditionally) has a religious connotation but it can still be viewed as a secular matter as long as churches retain the right not to marry gays. Apart from the obvious matter of the term itself being altered or diluted. In general, it should be sufficient that gays can set up cohabitation contracts like everyone else and have those apply in a court of law. Then that they would be able to join gay friendly churches that would accept those contracts as their being "married in the eyes of God". This doesn't need to be a matter of fundamentally altering the meaning of the term. Why not include polygamists, zoophiles etc ? Father+son+dog ? Why not ? There will be people who would want to be married like that, for whatever reasons.

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  5. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I understand Jakes' way of thinking in terms of rights set up by the government. With abortion it is not that simple because it gives someone the right to infringe upon someone else's natural rights (the unborn baby). With gay marriage the act doesn't directly affect anyone else than the two in question. It is possible for a Christian to get along with a secular society where most things that are consentual are allowed as long as there is freedom of association and freedom of speech. There is a technicality involved with marriage since that term (at least traditionally) has a religious connotation but it can still be viewed as a secular matter as long as churches retain the right not to marry gays. Apart from the obvious matter of the term itself being altered or diluted. In general, it should be sufficient that gays can set up cohabitation contracts like everyone else and have those apply in a court of law. Then that they would be able to join churches that would accept those contracts as their being "married in the eyes of God". This doesn't need to be a matter of fundamentally altering the meaning of the term. Why not include polygamists, zoophiles etc ? Father+son+dog ? Why not ? There will be people who would want to be married like that, for whatever reasons.
    We are KINGDOM people and we are supposed to IMPOSE a Kingdom, mindset with nations even if citizens arent Christians .. that's what it means to DISCIPLE nations ...I am not saying to impose by the sword or by force but by our prayers and proclamations at the least..

    By TD Jakes saying this is not a Christian nation he essentially cedes ground to the enemy .. My bible however proclaims that Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that all nations will bow before him .. Apparently Heaven didnt Get the separation of church and state Memo or the notion that this wasn't a Christian Nation

    For Kingdom minded people , there is no religious or secular it's either permitted in the Kingdom or it isnt and we Kingdom people aren't permitted to have any other opinions ... We are to proclaim the supremacy of our positions as opposed to become apologists for other people so called rights .. Rights that will inevitably send millions of them to hell in any case so where is the Love in that ?

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  7. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    We are KINGDOM people and we are supposed to IMPOSE a Kingdom, mindset with nations even if citizens arent Christians .. that's what it means to DISCIPLE nations ...I am not saying to impose by the sword or by force but by our prayers and proclamations at the least..

    By TD Jakes saying this is not a Christian nation he essentially cedes ground to the enemy .. My bible however proclaims that Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that all nations will bow before him .. Apparently Heaven didnt Get the separation of church and state Memo or the notion that this wasn't a Christian Nation

    For Kingdom minded people , there is no religious or secular it's either permitted in the Kingdom or it isnt and we Kingdom people aren't permitted to have any other opinions ... We are to proclaim the supremacy of our positions as opposed to become apologists for other people so called rights .. Rights that will inevitably send millions of them to hell in any case so where is the Love in that ?


    Just posted this which complements your reply:

    http://livingfaithforum.com/forum/sh...-of-the-closet

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  9. #25
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Well as long as there are sinners around, they can't be expected to hold to Christian standards, at least not thoroughly. And when there is a non-Christian majority things get more difficult. There is no way the United States is even close to having a Christian majority. I'm talking about actual born again Christians, not nominals. When revival has produced an actual majority then it will be easier to envision a society where standards are more Christian and less general. But it is a sad thing that the gay agenda has managed to change the views of non-Christians in the West on that matter to the degree that it has. Then carnal Christians follow suit of course.

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  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    I hate to say it but my sympathy for some of these guys just isn't there. When you fail to clearly define your position and you give undying support to politicians that hold to positions that denigrate the Word of God, what else is to be expected from unclear comments? Why don't these folks take a clear stand against unrighteousness instead of being ambiguous and then later hollering about being persecuted if they are misunderstood?
    Speaking of the very thing you're saying:

    http://livingfaithforum.com/forum/sh...ull=1#post2123

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  13. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Speaking of the very thing you're saying:

    http://livingfaithforum.com/forum/sh...ull=1#post2123
    I definitely agree with most of Dr. Browne's points. The Hillsong fiasco is another thing that annoys me. While we have to be careful about the info we pass on, these guys make it too easy for their position to be misunderstood and they often wait way too long to correct it, and then even their corrections leave one scratching one's head. Some of Pastor Houston's corrections are definitely keep me wondering. I am with Wheezer. Why not just call a spade a spade and stop playing these games. Jesus wants us hot or cold. He is sick of lukewarmness.

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  15. #28
    This time I beat Fuego to the "Michael Browne" article. Dr. Browne says exactly what I have been saying here (except he has much more space and words in which to say it):

    http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/...-homosexuality

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  17. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    This time I beat Fuego to the "Michael Browne" article. Dr. Browne says exactly what I have been saying here (except he has much more space and words in which to say it):

    http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/...-homosexuality
    That's a good article you didn't get to write. :)

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sojourner View Post
    People who I've known all my life and I know they know The Word, are "deciding" that all sexual sin is really ok. That "they" were born that way.
    If ya want to mess with their minds... tell them you have a deep dark secret! Tell them you believe you were born a thief, and then ask them if they have any nice things at their house and "when can I come by for a visit".

    If they freak out, just tell them "I was born to steal stuff, so you wouldn't want to deny me what God made me to be would you?"

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