Thread: Divorcing Your Church

Originally Posted by CatchyUsername

Where you said:

I sure don't because the body of Christ is global and I don't see any scripture about an allegiance to a specific body of believers...

Ok...thanks for clarifying. But since the Holy Spirit is our LEAD and His lead is Jesus, I believe that statement is accurate. Even while there our obligation is to them to the degree that we are led by HIM. I believe people often get put to work by leadership and totally miss what God actually called them to do. WE serve the body best by following the leading of Holy Spirit IMHO

But the thing is, I'm not talking about some sort of unbiblical pact or whatever. I'm talking about serving and loving from the heart, to the point of sacrifice and honoring your Word. I'm talking about a heart attitude more than anything. Sometimes people leave at the slightest non-provocation. Again, when I learned how the underground Church in China (and other persecuted nations) served one another, it is very different then how the western Church looks. Quest, I could relate stories that probably would literally sound insane to you, regarding the sacrifice people in those Churches make for each other. That's really what I'm talking about. The people I respect so much are very faithful and true as they serve in the local Body, and I don't see any need to split semantical hairs as to what exact verbiage is used to describe how people relate to one another in that regard. Vows? Nope. Swearing? Nope. Love? Service? Sacrifice? Yes. That's what love looks like and how it behaves.

If you don't like the word, "join", what would you suggest?

Originally Posted by Quest

Attending a church is not a spiritually binding covenant..nor is it a legal one...making a vow to a body is only binding in the sense that the Lord tells us we should swear to our own hurt and change not..God does not expect us to make vows to local congregations but to attend where He said go and do what HE says do while we are there.

There is nothing in the NT that even hints we are to 'join' in covenant with a local body.

I am thinking there is a major principle to consider: Christianity is supposed be ALOT about walking in love with other people. Part of that is the transformational aspect of learning to die to ourselves and exercise the love of neighbor that Jesus gives to us.

Did Mary Jo say something to hurt me? Yes. But did I do something to grieve God? Yes. As he forgives me I learn to forgive them. I can walk out of a situation based on every hurt -- or realize that I have to learn to be dead to myself and maintain relations best as I can (Rom 12:18). Jesus absorbed more unfair abuse than anyone -- for me. The natural tendency is to hit back, etc. -- when I need to learn to be Christlike.*

Every relationship: friend, marriage, work and church is going to present us with the flaws of people. Are we to leave every relationship at the slightest offense? These are the "life tests" that mold our character.

*Not talking of an abusive situation

Originally Posted by Jonathan david

I am thinking there is a major principle to consider: Christianity is supposed be ALOT about walking in love with other people. Part of that is the transformational aspect of learning to die to ourselves and exercise the love of neighbor that Jesus gives to us.

Did Mary Jo say something to hurt me? Yes. But did I do something to grieve God? Yes. As he forgives me I learn to forgive them. I can walk out of a situation based on every hurt -- or realize that I have to learn to be dead to myself and maintain relations best as I can (Rom 12:18). Jesus absorbed more unfair abuse than anyone -- for me. The natural tendency is to hit back, etc. -- when I need to learn to be Christlike.*

Every relationship: friend, marriage, work and church is going to present us with the flaws of people. Are we to leave every relationship at the slightest offense? These are the "life tests" that mold our character.

*Not talking of an abusive situation

So what if the "offender" is your pastor? Someone that you consider your covering and spiritual authority, the one who has to give account for your soul? (Hebrews 13:17) I'm not talking about legitimate church discipline, I'm talking about situations where manipulation is happening, and when he/she is confronted about it, denies anything and everything and makes YOU out to be the "problem"...Pastors who you go to in supposed "confidence" but put your business out over the pulpit under the guise of "preaching the Gospel" See, there is more to this than "abuse" but certainly spiritual abuse happens. JD, I appreciate the "walking in love" and "dying to self" message, but it is so damn hard to do that when your gut (and your spirit) is literally in anguish over being in a place, under some sense of "loyalty" and being in "covenant", and you have NO ONE to talk to about it, except God..aaaaand IF IF IF God DOES lead you away, your ability of hearing the Holy Spirit for yourself is questioned, by accusations of you being bitter and unforgiving...

There are right ways and wrong ways of leaving a church..I know, I've done both. What I'm talking about here goes deeper than not being able to overlook some flaws in people.

Originally Posted by Jonathan david

I am thinking there is a major principle to consider: Christianity is supposed be ALOT about walking in love with other people. Part of that is the transformational aspect of learning to die to ourselves and exercise the love of neighbor that Jesus gives to us.

Did Mary Jo say something to hurt me? Yes. But did I do something to grieve God? Yes. As he forgives me I learn to forgive them. I can walk out of a situation based on every hurt -- or realize that I have to learn to be dead to myself and maintain relations best as I can (Rom 12:18). Jesus absorbed more unfair abuse than anyone -- for me. The natural tendency is to hit back, etc. -- when I need to learn to be Christlike.*

Every relationship: friend, marriage, work and church is going to present us with the flaws of people. Are we to leave every relationship at the slightest offense? These are the "life tests" that mold our character.

*Not talking of an abusive situation

Very clear and thoughtful post. Thanks.

Originally Posted by FaithfulOne

So what if the "offender" is your pastor? Someone that you consider your covering and spiritual authority, the one who has to give account for your soul? (Hebrews 13:17) I'm not talking about legitimate church discipline, I'm talking about situations where manipulation is happening, and when he/she is confronted about it, denies anything and everything and makes YOU out to be the "problem"...Pastors who you go to in supposed "confidence" but put your business out over the pulpit under the guise of "preaching the Gospel" See, there is more to this than "abuse" but certainly spiritual abuse happens. JD, I appreciate the "walking in love" and "dying to self" message, but it is so damn hard to do that when your gut (and your spirit) is literally in anguish over being in a place, under some sense of "loyalty" and being in "covenant", and you have NO ONE to talk to about it, except God..aaaaand IF IF IF God DOES lead you away, your ability of hearing the Holy Spirit for yourself is questioned, by accusations of you being bitter and unforgiving...

There are right ways and wrong ways of leaving a church..I know, I've done both. What I'm talking about here goes deeper than not being able to overlook some flaws in people.

Hi, FO,
Thanks for your thoughful post. Can we say there is a spectrum here? At one end there indeed is the "spiritual abuse" situation, which I have been in before. I absolutely would agree that those situation you gotta "get out of Dodge." You had your blind loyalists who spouted the party line -- but that is what happens when you have robot minions. At least we had about 10 of us who KNEW it was a corruption situation, so we could lean on each other.

And the other end is the hard part of dealing with people in general.

I learned a lot from John Bevere's book The Bait of Satan. He had to go through a period of learning to forgive someone who messed him up -- it was hard -- almost always is. But over time he was able to work through it. Doesn't mean you have to be best buddies either afterward.

i recently divorced my church.... got custody of the baptist hymnals...... anyone need a hymnal?

Originally Posted by wheeze

i recently divorced my church.... got custody of the baptist hymnals...... anyone need a hymnal?

No thanks! I'm a Pentecostal and proud of it!

Originally Posted by CatchyUsername

But the thing is, I'm not talking about some sort of unbiblical pact or whatever. I'm talking about serving and loving from the heart, to the point of sacrifice and honoring your Word. I'm talking about a heart attitude more than anything. Sometimes people leave at the slightest non-provocation. Again, when I learned how the underground Church in China (and other persecuted nations) served one another, it is very different then how the western Church looks. Quest, I could relate stories that probably would literally sound insane to you, regarding the sacrifice people in those Churches make for each other. That's really what I'm talking about. The people I respect so much are very faithful and true as they serve in the local Body, and I don't see any need to split semantical hairs as to what exact verbiage is used to describe how people relate to one another in that regard. Vows? Nope. Swearing? Nope. Love? Service? Sacrifice? Yes. That's what love looks like and how it behaves.

If you don't like the word, "join", what would you suggest?

Participate..fellowship...As members of THE body of Christ there is no need to covenant with a part of that body.

Let's use family for example...I am a member of a diverse scattered family. I have no need to covenant with some portion of that family. The whole family is unified in covenant to Jesus by Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches no other covenant other than marriage.

So for this author to imply we MARRY and divorce local congregations is not Biblical at all.

Originally Posted by Jonathan david

I am thinking there is a major principle to consider: Christianity is supposed be ALOT about walking in love with other people. Part of that is the transformational aspect of learning to die to ourselves and exercise the love of neighbor that Jesus gives to us.

Did Mary Jo say something to hurt me? Yes. But did I do something to grieve God? Yes. As he forgives me I learn to forgive them. I can walk out of a situation based on every hurt -- or realize that I have to learn to be dead to myself and maintain relations best as I can (Rom 12:18). Jesus absorbed more unfair abuse than anyone -- for me. The natural tendency is to hit back, etc. -- when I need to learn to be Christlike.*

Every relationship: friend, marriage, work and church is going to present us with the flaws of people. Are we to leave every relationship at the slightest offense? These are the "life tests" that mold our character.

*Not talking of an abusive situation

I agree...now pointing back to the article in the OP the author begins by making a judgment against a woman he meets who simply states, "I used to attend that church..' and from there makes a blanket implication that leaving a church is equal to divorce and implies this lady left for 'some new revelation' while providing ZERO support for that accusation...that sounds like a set up FOR abuse..