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Thread: Another Mega Church Pastor Falls

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post

    If someone does not sow the seed there will be NO harvest. God may send someone else but He may not. To say that we can shrug off our personal responsibility to witness to the lost because God will always send someone else is false doctrine.
    So who sowed the seed for the Apostle Paul to get saved ?

    What about Cornelius? , who among the Christian Brethren sowed the seed ?heck most of them didn't even believe gentiles could be saved

    Per The underlined part of your post you are arguing with yourself .. engaging in conjecture and projecting against arguments that no one is making .


    When the apostle Paul wanted to head to Asia Minor to preach the gospel .. Didn't the holy Spirit forbid them despite their zeal ?

    Saying that God is the great orchestrator of it all is not Calvinism it simply biblical common sense

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    So who sowed the seed for the Apostle Paul to get saved ?

    What about Cornelius? , who among the Christian Brethren sowed the seed ?heck most of them didn't even believe gentiles could be saved

    Per The underlined part of your post you are arguing with yourself .. engaging in conjecture and projecting against arguments that no one is making .


    When the apostle Paul wanted to head to Asia Minor to preach the gospel .. Didn't the holy Spirit forbid them despite their zeal ?

    Saying that God is the great orchestrator of it all is not Calvinism it simply biblical common sense
    First, Paul was persecuting Christians because he knew what they believed. It was a divinely granted visit from the Lord that set him apart to preach and suffer for the Gospel. He knew exactly what he had to do. Second the Word makes clear that angels do not preach the Gospel we do. Cornelius Sends for Peter

    1At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was called the Italian Regiment. 2He and all his household were devout and God-fearing. He gave generously to the people and prayed to God regularly. 3 One day at about the ninth hour,a he had a clear vision of an angel of God who came to him and said, "Cornelius!"

    4Cornelius stared at him in fear and asked, "What is it, Lord?"

    The angel answered, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have ascended as a memorial offering before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa to call for a man named Simon who is called Peter. 6 He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.b"
    7 When the angel who spoke to him had gone, Cornelius called two of his servants and a devout soldier from among his attendants. 8He explained what had happened and sent them to Joppa. 34Then Peter began to speak: "I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post


    First, Paul was persecuting Christians because he knew what they believed. It was a divinely granted visit from the Lord that set him apart to preach and suffer for the Gospel. He knew exactly what he had to do. Second the Word makes clear that angels do not preach the Gospel we do. Cornelius Sends for Peter

    1At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was called the Italian Regiment. 2He and all his household were devout and God-fearing. He gave generously to the people and prayed to God regularly. 3 One day at about the ninth hour,a he had a clear vision of an angel of God who came to him and said, "Cornelius!"

    4Cornelius stared at him in fear and asked, "What is it, Lord?"

    The angel answered, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have ascended as a memorial offering before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa to call for a man named Simon who is called Peter. 6 He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.b"
    7 When the angel who spoke to him had gone, Cornelius called two of his servants and a devout soldier from among his attendants. 8He explained what had happened and sent them to Joppa. 34Then Peter began to speak: "I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.
    I am well aware that angels don't preach the gospel . I am simply pointing out you that God has a million ways to get people saved even when there is no actual ministry to sow the seed as you claim or even when the ministry that's supposed to sow the seed doesn't even think you can be saved .

    To go back to your claim that Millions went to hell because of Jimmy Swaggarts sin . How come God didn't let Cornelius go to hell simply because Peter who had previously been commissioned with the gospel was disobedient ?

    Believe it or not you are making my point for me . God will utilize, angels , divine appearances , divine encounters to orchestrate salvation for those with open hearts even when those who are supposed to preach the gospel are flawed either in doctrine or deed .

    We are merely privileged. To be co-laborers with him so let not any minister think his ministry is indispensable within the coontext of Gods plans

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  5. #44
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post
    If I was satan I would focus on larger targets that would bring more media attention ? When a small church Pastor fails it hardly gains a yawn from believers. But when the Big ones fail the reports go around the world....
    A celebrity status attracts women. Power and money too.

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    I am well aware that angels don't preach the gospel . I am simply pointing out you that God has a million ways to get people saved even when there is no actual ministry to sow the seed as you claim or even when the ministry that's supposed to sow the seed doesn't even think you can be saved .

    To go back to your claim that Millions went to hell because of Jimmy Swaggarts sin . How come God didn't let Cornelius go to hell simply because Peter who had previously been commissioned with the gospel was disobedient ?

    Believe it or not you are making my point for me . God will utilize, angels , divine appearances , divine encounters to orchestrate salvation for those with open hearts even when those who are supposed to preach the gospel are flawed either in doctrine or deed .

    We are merely privileged. To be co-laborers with him so let not any minister think his ministry is indispensable within the coontext of Gods plans
    So they go to hell because someone believes that God will always someone else. That is straight up Calvinist error. And it is responsible for people NOT hearing the Gospel. Many refuse to preach or open their mouths. That does not mean God always sends someone else. Your just assuming God does and that is sending people to hell. It is a slide into fatalism or even worse universalism and ultimate reconciliation error where no one will be lost. So why even worry about preaching to them if everyone gets a second chance after death?

  7. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post
    So they go to hell because someone believes that God will always someone else. That is straight up Calvinist error. And it is responsible for people NOT hearing the Gospel. Many refuse to preach or open their mouths. That does not mean God always sends someone else. Your just assuming God does and that is sending people to hell. It is a slide into fatalism or even worse universalism and ultimate reconciliation error where no one will be lost. So why even worry about preaching to them if everyone gets a second chance after death?
    Calvinist this Calvinist that ... You sound like a broken record ...
    I have giving you plenty of scripture showing that God WILL use other means ..

    Here is another one
    LUKE 19: 40 And He answered and said unto them, "I tell you that if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out."

    At this juncture it seems like you just like hearing yourself talk .. engaging in what I call argument by declaration.
    No one is Calvinist simply because you declare them to be my friend .. you actually have to make a biblical case for your position beyond the banal repetitive jargon you have offered up so far

  8. #47
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post
    There are high level targets and there are low level targets. When satan brought down Jimmy Swaggart it hurt millions of believers. The local Pastor has local influence and is a target. But if you have global influence you are a high level target for sure. Think for a moment if you were satan who would be your prime targets when you have limited demonic resources ????
    We have to remember that satan can only be in one place at a time. He is going to personally go after those whom he considers his biggest threat. The others he will send his minions after. But nevertheless, they all have a target on their back.

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  10. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    A celebrity status attracts women. Power and money too.
    Lear Jets are my stumbling zone....

  11. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    A celebrity status attracts women. Power and money too.
    That's 1Jn 2:16

    For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

    Or the 3 G's that will kill a man of God...
    -Gold
    -Girls
    -Glory

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  13. #50
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    We have to remember that satan can only be in one place at a time. He is going to personally go after those whom he considers his biggest threat. The others he will send his minions after. But nevertheless, they all have a target on their back.
    Thankfully, angelic forces oppose him (and his angels and smaller demons) and he cannot do whatever he wants.

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