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Banned
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
told us 6 major points to God's wrath
And the points TT are
it's eternal, has already begun, is coming in final judgment, is owing to our sin, is righteous and is God's prerogative. Where does that "promote God as wrath, anger, vengeful"?
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
^^^^Please answer my question about telling everyone about God's wrath instead of deflecting
No.
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Banned
Originally Posted by
LionHeart
John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself." Calvin's false doctrine has been soundly refuted here. Why do you keep pushing it on us ??
Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself." Now He was saying this to indicate what kind of death He was going to die. (John 12:31-33 NASB)
Four things,
1. When did Jesus draw Pharaoh to himself? And Goliath? And Genghis Khan?
2. You seem to be quoting from the Darby version. The NASB and others add the word "people", sometimes translated "men" or "everyone", hopefully in italics as the NASB does because it is implied. However the word translated "all" has about eight similar, but not the same, meanings, so must be understood in the light of all other Scripture (see point 4).
3. The next verse says that 12.32 is Jesus "indicat(ing) what kind of death He was going to die". The Bible tells us that that is the purpose of Jesus' statement and therefore we should be careful that we don't try read into it more than what Jesus meant.
4. John 4:66 says clearly that "No one can come to Me (Jesus) unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." So to come to Jesus you 1) HAVE to be drawn by the Father, and (Jesus says "and") Jesus WILL raise those drawn to Him up on the last day.
John 6:36-39 says the same thing another way, "Everything that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day." Do not these words of Jesus mean what they say? Jesus said that "if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself". Not deniable. But it can't mean every individual as so many had already died and gone to hell. John 4:66 and 6:36-39 are very clear though.
So nothing refuted yet LionHeart.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Bookman
Those who are wise will depart from sin and accept the free gift of Christ's righteousness.
According to Calvinism ...It's impossible for sinners as they cannot accept the free gift as they need irresistible grace and be born again before they believe in Jesus
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Senior Member
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Banned
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
As I said before........disingenuous
Question: Please answer the question ...Do you tell unsaved family, friends, neighbours, colleagues, general public how God's wrath abides on them?
Do you talk regularly about God's wrath to fellow believers?
Answer: No
How is that "disingenuous", i.e Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating. It is extremely straightforward and just as candid.
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Senior Member
Ok...I misunderstood your answer and deleted my comment above
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Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
Ok...I misunderstood your answer and have edited my comment above
That's OK TT, it happens a lot in written communication of this type.
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While wrath is wrath, I feel that, at a certain point, many if not most people can't be threatened into Heaven. One needs a taste of God's love to be drawn. Like the saying about how a teaspoon of honey draws more flies than a gallon of vinegar. Yes, wrath is wrath but wrath alone is a recipe for a hollow, sour, dour Christian.
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Originally Posted by
MercyandFaith
While wrath is wrath, I feel that, at a certain point, many if not most people can't be threatened into Heaven. One needs a taste of God's love to be drawn. Like the saying about how a teaspoon of honey draws more flies than a gallon of vinegar. Yes, wrath is wrath but wrath alone is a recipe for a hollow, sour, dour Christian.
So you say, feel, but because it's that's common that I started the thread It Ain't Necessarily So
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
FunFromOz
Look at the 'success rate' of those streetside preachers with bullhorns and pictures of fire and brimstone, saying "Turn or Burn" or warning of damnation. How many people are they saving?
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