Thread: Is John 3:16 the Gospel? (David Pawson died too you know!)

Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT
Regardless you believe a demonic doctrine

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

The Doctrine that God is Sovereign over all His creation is demonic?

According to your very peculiar definition of "sovereign" which exists only within Calvinism and involves totalitarian micro management, probably.

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

That statement implies that you lack some understanding of reformed theology.

What is preached to sinners is the Gospel of repentance, that they are sinners under God's wrath; and in need of a Saviour; and are to repent of their sin.

What's behind that, the sinfulness of man; who God calls, and how; your security in Christ etc. makes no sense to sinners and is taught to believers so that they can understand the wonder and majesty of their Father God.

No I understand that very well thank you.

Originally Posted by Cardinal TT

I am very very sure that babies go to heaven

John MacArthur agrees with you.

Originally Posted by Colonel

No I understand that very well thank you.

If you did you wouldn't continually say things that are incorrect like this next statement.

Originally Posted by Colonel

According to your very peculiar definition of "sovereign" which exists only within Calvinism and involves totalitarian micro management, probably.

The world hears that God is love (agapē), substitutes their meaning of "love" (which is often lust), and thinks that is what God is.

As Spurgeon says "in earthly realms sovereignty speaks of one who holds the highest place of authority such as a President". He then goes on to say "when this term is applied to God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, that the meaning takes on a much fuller sense".

And you are doing as the world does with "love", you're taking the world's use of a word and applying it to God rather than looking at what God is like in Scripture.

God is Sovereign. But what does this mean? The word "sovereignty" means "Supreme Authority" and in earthly realms speaks of one who holds the highest place of authority such as a Monarch, or President or Ruler of a province or territory.

But consider that when this term is applied to God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, that the meaning takes on a much fuller sense. God is in heaven and having made the world by His own power out of nothing, and is even now sustaining everything by His powerful Word, God is The Sovereign King above all earthly and heavenly powers and authorities. As the Scripture says......

Psalm 103:19 – 19 The LORD has established His throne in the heavens; And His sovereignty rules over all. NASB

God possesses absolute dominion and authority over all things. So He is said to sit on a "throne" in heaven! Just think how ridiculous it would be to say that God created the universe, but He is not in control of what takes place in it. Well the truth is God not only controls nature and history, but He literally sustains the entire universe by his power, and orders the events of his entire creation to accomplish His own purposes and plans. (emphasis in original)


Charles Spurgeon. Sovereignty of God – older version | Heaven's Light

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

If you did you wouldn't continually say things that are incorrect like this next statement.



The world hears that God is love (agapē), substitutes their meaning of "love" (which is often lust), and thinks that is what God is.

As Spurgeon says "in earthly realms sovereignty speaks of one who holds the highest place of authority such as a President". He then goes on to say "when this term is applied to God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, that the meaning takes on a much fuller sense".

And you are doing as the world does with "love", you're taking the world's use of a word and applying it to God rather than looking at what God is like in Scripture.

I'm not doing anything with "love" and how does what I said about the Calvinist definition of "sovereign" differ from what you said ?

Originally Posted by Colonel

I'm not doing anything with "love" and how does what I said about the Calvinist definition of "sovereign" differ from what you said ?

"Love" was an example because we know the sexually perverted carry "God is Love" signs interpreting His description of Himself as equating to their perversions. In fact those who say God couldn't do certain things (e.g. punish evil people) because "God is Love" are doing the same thing.

There is a difference between saying that God "sustains the entire universe by his power, and orders the events of his entire creation to accomplish His own purposes and plans" and saying that He is a "totalitarian micro manage(r)" you know.

Someone's devotional from today Colonel: And don't worry, he's not reformed, he goes to Global Fire Church Home

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

"Love" was an example because we know the sexually perverted carry "God is Love" signs interpreting His description of Himself as equating to their perversions. In fact those who say God couldn't do certain things (e.g. punish evil people) because "God is Love" are doing the same thing.

Which is irrelevant to the discussion about Calvinist vs non-Calvinist theology.

There is a difference between saying that God "sustains the entire universe by his power, and orders the events of his entire creation to accomplish His own purposes and plans" and saying that He is a "totalitarian micro manage(r)" you know.

Not when "God foreordained everything that comes to pass", which you've quoted a large number of times now.

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

Someone's devotional from today Colonel: And don't worry, he's not reformed, he goes to Global Fire Church Home

If you could make God do something that he otherwise wouldn't have, by your prayers, then according to your own definition of sovereignty, he would no longer be sovereign.

Originally Posted by Colonel

If you could make God do something that he otherwise wouldn't have, by your prayers, then according to your own definition of sovereignty, he would no longer be sovereign.

And He sometimes makes it look to us like He does doesn't He.

Knowing you're securely in the hands of a Holy, Righteous, Just, and Loving God who is working all things for the good of those He loves and ultimately His own glory is very comforting.