Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 18 of 18

Thread: The wrath of God

  1. #11
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    The wrath of God-93e914727e133abe9feae95540a2b1f3-jpg

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    "Jesus died spiritually". Antis typically reject the notion that Jesus suffered after he died physically.
    He would have to die spiritually before dying physically wouldn't he?

    He was forsaken by God ("My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?") which would seem to signify when He died spiritually; when God's wrath would have come upon Him; and which meant He could die physically which He did.

    Does the Bible tell us how long Jesus suffered for? I don't know. I don't think so. But does it matter? We know He died; we know He rose again; we know He became sin; we know He suffered God's wrath; we know that because Jesus took on our sin God can give us Christ's righteousness.

    "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor 5:21). Isn't that enough? Is it perhaps like a seven year old having a baby brother; isn't knowing he's "having a baby brother" enough? Does he really have to know ALL the little details?

    So in answer to your question (I ramble on a lot, sorry, it's how my brain works), I haven't a problem with people suggesting something may have happened with good reason; but to say something happened, and to make a big deal of it, without valid support causes me great concern.

    [So much for going to bed an hour ago ...]

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    The wrath of God-93e914727e133abe9feae95540a2b1f3-jpg
    Yeah God does that (as in smiting) about a dozen times. Tends not to do it to individuals though. (BibleGateway - Keyword Search: smite)


    Though unfortunately TT there are probably people who get their theology from The Far Side rather that the Bible.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    He would have to die spiritually before dying physically wouldn't he?

    He was forsaken by God ("My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?") which would seem to signify when He died spiritually; when God's wrath would have come upon Him; and which meant He could die physically which He did.

    Does the Bible tell us how long Jesus suffered for? I don't know. I don't think so. But does it matter? We know He died; we know He rose again; we know He became sin; we know He suffered God's wrath; we know that because Jesus took on our sin God can give us Christ's righteousness.

    "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor 5:21). Isn't that enough? Is it perhaps like a seven year old having a baby brother; isn't knowing he's "having a baby brother" enough? Does he really have to know ALL the little details?

    So in answer to your question (I ramble on a lot, sorry, it's how my brain works), I haven't a problem with people suggesting something may have happened with good reason; but to say something happened, and to make a big deal of it, without valid support causes me great concern.

    [So much for going to bed an hour ago ...]
    Is there anything that suggests that Jesus' suffering ended when he died physically and did not continue in any form while he was in Hades ?

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Is there anything that suggests that Jesus' suffering ended when he died physically and did not continue in any form while he was in Hades ?
    I don't know of anything, but I also don't know of anything to suggest that it did.

    Some history. There's a recent paraphrase of the Bible aimed at 10-12 year olds. It might be useful to a new Christian. But I recently heard someone who has been in church leadership, and speaking, for 30 years, speak based on the English words in it that are totally at odds with the meanings of the words in the original Hebrew. This led to four more things in the talk being wrong, and the talk was a lead in to a series.

    What He said was wrong. He normally quotes from a different version (which itself is often flaky, but was reasonable on this verse) so he had to know that what he was saying was incorrect. People who insist on teaching have a great responsibility to teach correctly. He will answer to God for lying.

    Paul said we're to be nourished on sound doctrine. Once we go into areas where the Bible is silent we risk becoming unsound. That's not wise.

  6. #16
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,274
    Thanked: 14131
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    I don't know of anything, but I also don't know of anything to suggest that it did.
    Jesus said as Jonah was in the belly of the fish that he would be in the heart of the earth 3 days. God read Jonah's prophecy inside the fish. It's clear about Jesus and it's from 'the hear of the earth.' That's about as plain as it gets even though some want to ignore it.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Jesus said as Jonah was in the belly of the fish that he would be in the heart of the earth 3 days. God read Jonah's prophecy inside the fish. It's clear about Jesus and it's from 'the hear of the earth.' That's about as plain as it gets even though some want to ignore it.
    The question was "Is there anything that suggests that Jesus' suffering ended when he died physically?"

    The phrase "heart of the earth" is only used once in Scripture and as a comparison to the fact that "Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster" (Matt 12:40). Conclusions could be drawn but is there Scripture to support those conclusions?

  8. #18
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Jesus said as Jonah was in the belly of the fish that he would be in the heart of the earth 3 days. God read Jonah's prophecy inside the fish. It's clear about Jesus and it's from 'the hear of the earth.' That's about as plain as it gets even though some want to ignore it.
    Okay but now you guys have managed to turn my question upsidedown. Even if someone ignores that and other verses they are still left with the question of what exactly suggests, beyond mere assumption, that Jesus' suffering ended when he died physically and didn't continue while he was in Hades. What exactly happened that put an end to his suffering and kept him from not suffering during those three days until he was resurrected ?

    One of the main conclusions from the first sermon held in public after the resurrection says otherwise :

    Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—
    23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death;
    24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.

    This is where the main leader among Jesus' followers gets to explain exactly what he thinks has happened that has turned the tide completely since Jesus was crucified and put to death 50 days earlier. Which makes it the most weighty statement imaginable on that matter.

    Peter's statement is a reference from both Psalm 18 and 116 which makes it a fulfillment of prophecy but it is pretty clear on its own too.

    Psalm 18:4 The pangs of death surrounded me,
    And the floods of ungodliness made me afraid.
    5 The sorrows of Sheol surrounded me;
    The snares of death confronted me.

    Psalm 116:3 The pains of death surrounded me, And the pangs of Sheol laid hold of me; I found trouble and sorrow.

    Sheol is the Hebrew term for Hades which is where Jesus was released from when God resurrected him from the dead. His physical death wasn't a release from his suffering, his resurrection was.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Has your Hyundai Sonata warranty expired? Get a fast online quote from CarWarrantyUS today. Enjoy the open road and leave the repairs to us.