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Thread: Wrath Has Gone Out from God's Presence

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    Wrath Has Gone Out from God's Presence

    Wrath Has Gone Out from God's Presence
    An brief exposition of Numbers 16:45-46

    Num 16:45 Get you up from among this congregation, that I may consume them as in a moment. And they fell upon their faces.
    Num 16:46 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the LORD; the plague is begun.

    Very often when we declare the truth that God is good and that no evil (sickness, disease, tragedy, etc.) is authored by Him we are challenged with Scripture quotes that supposedly speak to the contrary. Recently, the passage above was quoted as a refutation to one of our teachings (though no exposition of the verse was given despite my request for the person to do so).

    We have already expounded upon the above passage in our book, Does God Send Sickness (I recommend waiting for the revised edition to be completed) and our most recent book, The Wrath of God: What it is and How it is Executed. However, it will not hurt to touch on it briefly in this blog, though we highly recommend our aforementioned books to get a fuller explanation of our understanding of the text.

    Read more:
    Vindicating God Ministries: Wrath Has Gone Out from God’s Presence
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    The plague and the earthquake were clearly allowed by God but there is a more specific judgment mentioned in the same chapter, against the main antagonists :

    Num 16:19 And Korah gathered all the congregation against them at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. Then the glory of the Lord appeared to all the congregation.
    ***
    35 And a fire came out from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering incense.

    This fire came directly from the glory cloud where God was present and the judgment was therefore active and not merely permissive.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    You are accurate with many of your explanations about certain judgements but God at times judged directly in the OT as Colonel mentioned above.

    You have squeezed every judgment scripture into the box you have made as it fits what you want God to be like.

    I can fully handle God being merciful, compassionate, holy, light, without evil and yet fully good and still see him as executing direct judgement at times.

    There are many believers now so fully convinced that God is love and good that no person goes to hell.

    That is what happens when God's character is wrongly discerned and even though you don't do that and believe in hell your propositions are the next step for those that want to embrace these false assumptions about God.

    Who turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt - God or satan.
    If you believe it was satan you make the devil a lot stronger than what scripture teaches.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Why would Satan bother to destroy the 250 main antagonists within the camp of Israel just because God allowed him to do so ? And how did he get into the glory cloud ?

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Why would Satan bother to destroy the 250 main antagonists within the camp of Israel just because God allowed him to do so ? And how did he get into the glory cloud ?
    Wouldn't satan prefer to keep them alive and poison the multitudes yet he does God's perfect will...that doesn't seem like the adversary

    As well as being in God's cloud he responded immediately at God's word...which makes him very obedient

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Wouldn't satan prefer to keep them alive and poison the multitudes yet he does God's perfect will...that doesn't seem like the adversary

    As well as being in God's cloud he responded immediately at God's word...which makes him very obedient
    Satan doesn't have full control over stuff that he introduced into the world like plagues and earthquakes and God might simply allow that to take its natural course. But the event referred to is far too specific and there are many other examples. Satan would have refused to comply once in a while simply because he's a rebel - even if it wasn't a matter of destroying his closest allies.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Below is a YT clip by Dr. Michael Brown addressing sickness and judgment - firstly I do not accept everything he says in this video but nonetheless he makes points we should at least investigate.

    Secondly he is a Hebrew scholar and knows the biblical language fluently. He also did his doctoral dissertation on the Hebrew word 'rapha' which is Hebrew for heal so he has spent countless hours looking into healing and judgment. He is a pentecostal and believes in healing and prays for sick.



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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    This is a common objection to God actively judging : "Jesus revealed the Father and he never hurt anyone". They forget that Jesus judges his church and also the world in general, after his resurrection. It's all recorded in scripture itself just as the gospels record his Earthly ministry (including statements about his future doings). We can't look at Jesus exclusively from his baptism in the river Jordan and until he ascended into heaven 40 days after his resurrection, that's an incomplete picture.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    In the OT God required his people under specific direction to kill everyone in certain cities

    Look at Jericho - they killed all the children
    Josh 6:21- And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword.

    There are many unsaved who use these verses to call God a monster. There are christians who have become offended and some have turned their back on God. How do we explain this...is it God's permissive judgment.....did satan kill them using Joshua and the Israelites.

    If God demanded such judgment by the hands of people why is it wrong to say God at times directly judged people
    The command to kill everyone including children by the hands of God's people is far more challenging than God using fire to destroy the wicked


    If we are confronted by someone who wants a explanation to these verses....most believers will try to wiggle out of it and some will twist scripture to try to make God 'nice' so they don't offend the person asking

    The truth - God is 100% good and pure and if he commanded it for that specific time and place it was totally righteous
    If the person gets offended...so be it

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    In the OT God required his people under specific direction to kill everyone in certain cities

    Look at Jericho - they killed all the children
    Josh 6:21- And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword.

    There are many unsaved who use these verses to call God a monster. There are christians who have become offended and some have turned their back on God. How do we explain this...is it God's permissive judgment.....did satan kill them using Joshua and the Israelites.

    If God demanded such judgment by the hands of people why is it wrong to say God at times directly judged people
    The command to kill everyone including children by the hands of God's people is far more challenging than God using fire to destroy the wicked

    If we are confronted by someone who wants a explanation to these verses....most believers will try to wiggle out of it and some will twist scripture to try to make God 'nice' so they don't offend the person asking

    The truth - God is 100% good and pure and if he commanded it for that specific time and place it was totally righteous
    If the person gets offended...so be it
    CatchyUsername tried to explain it away by claiming that all of them were evil giants. Every last person in the land of Canaan. Which creates similar problems.

    But to address Victoryword's version of this :

    The thought that God would tell the Israelites that he is allowing Satan to motion them to kill every last person in a city is, well, to say the least, quite oblique.

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