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Thread: My Grace is Sufficient for Thee

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    My Grace is Sufficient for Thee

    My Grace is Sufficient for Thee
    Vindicating God Ministries: My Grace is Sufficient for Thee

    "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness." (2 Cor. 12:9)

    God Did NOT Say:

    1. "No!" to Paul's request to have the thorn removed. Paul said "he will yet deliver us; ye also helping together by prayer for us" (2 Cor. 1:8-11). Prayer delivers from trials.
    2. "Paul, learn to just grin and bear it." Paul said "our present troubles are small and won't last very long" (2 Cor. 4:17-18; New Living Translation)
    3. "My grace will allow you to tolerate Satan's thorn." God's grace is given to enable us to resist Satan's attacks (James 4:6-7; 1 Pet. 5:5-10). Paul taught that we are to take an aggressive stand against Satan (Eph. 6:10-18)


    Read your Bible and stop reading things INTO your Bible that are not there.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Then people go too far with their interpretations of what "the thorn" is supposed to refer to. The text says that it was an angel of Satan (Greek : angelos) and by the list in the previous chapter it seems clear that the angel was stirring up trouble and persecution for Paul. Which is a different category from what people typically employ "the thorn" to cover in their lives, for instance sickness. In general, every kind of ill that doesn't involve being persecuted for one's faith.

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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Then people go too far with their interpretations of what "the thorn" is supposed to refer to. The text says that it was an angel of Satan (Greek : angelos) and by the list in the previous chapter it seems clear that the angel was stirring up trouble and persecution for Paul. Which is a different category from what people typically employ "the thorn" to cover in their lives, for instance sickness. In general, every kind of ill that doesn't involve being persecuted for one's faith.
    And as you said many say it was some sickness, but sickness and disease are conspicuous by their absence in the list of 'ills'.

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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    I actually have some good teaching on this that has been a long time since I've taught it. It involves other passages elsewhere that help clear up or reveal some of the things Paul said after God said "My grace is sufficient for thee."

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    And as you said many say it was some sickness, but sickness and disease are conspicuous by their absence in the list of 'ills'.
    Since the thorn was an angel of Satan, it's impossible that the thorn was a sickness - unless the angel was possessing Paul. If an angel were capable of possessing Paul it would have been a simple matter for Paul to exercise authority over it and cast it out. The angel was an external agent completely separated from Paul and any ill that it produced was indirect. Paul wasn't able to do anything about the angel going after him. He asked God about that and God didn't remove the angel. But God's grace was sufficient for him to overcome the problems that the angel created indirectly. This passage becomes easy to understand once one defines the thorn properly according to what the original Greek text says, rather than according to what the various faulty translations say. There is no reason to translate "angelos" as messenger when we know that Satan is a spiritual being and that he commands angels, other spiritual beings. There is every reason to translate angelos as messenger in passages where the context is more likely human messengers, like in Acts 12 (Peter's messenger whom people thought was merely speaking for him while Peter himself was in prison) and in Rev 2-3 (messengers to each church). The translations seem bogged down by traditional interpretations.
    Last edited by Colonel; 11-06-2019 at 06:55 AM.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I just thought about how crazy that traditional translation "messenger of Satan" becomes. It sounds like something out of the movie Godfather where they receive a fish wrapped in newspapers and someone says "it's a Sicilian message, it means that such-and-such 'sleeps with the fishes'". So what is this "messenger of Satan" supposed to imply, does it mean "Satan has a message for me on how much he hates me and God looks the other way ?". That's Satanism, not Christianity.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I actually have some good teaching on this that has been a long time since I've taught it. It involves other passages elsewhere that help clear up or reveal some of the things Paul said after God said "My grace is sufficient for thee."
    Go ahead.

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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Go ahead.
    Well, not sure I want to tackle it unless I can figure out how to say it succinctly.

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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I just thought about how crazy that traditional translation "messenger of Satan" becomes. It sounds like something out of the movie Godfather where they receive a fish wrapped in newspapers and someone says "it's a Sicilian message, it means that such-and-such 'sleeps with the fishes'". So what is this "messenger of Satan" supposed to imply, does it mean "Satan has a message for me on how much he hates me and God looks the other way ?". That's Satanism, not Christianity.
    FF Bosworth has a whole chapter on Paul's Thorn in Christ the Healer. One point he brings up is Paul using the term 'thorn in the flesh' and how Paul used that OT term on purpose and shows how it was used in the OT referring to the various people they didn't destroy like they were supposed to and the people became 'thorns in their eyes and pricks in their sides'. In other words, 'people trouble' like Paul mentions in the previous chapter.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    FF Bosworth has a whole chapter on Paul's Thorn in Christ the Healer. One point he brings up is Paul using the term 'thorn in the flesh' and how Paul used that OT term on purpose and shows how it was used in the OT referring to the various people they didn't destroy like they were supposed to and the people became 'thorns in their eyes and pricks in their sides'. In other words, 'people trouble' like Paul mentions in the previous chapter.
    I read that the term was used about something that irritates, not something that destroys. A thorn in the flesh is a thorn, not a spear stuck in or through one's side. Not a crown of thorns either, just one thorn embedded in flesh and difficult to get rid of. After their initial general conquest the peoples of Canaan became a matter of irritation to the Jews as a people. Still capable of gaining back the upper hand over time but perfectly possible to overcome, by grace.

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