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Thread: The narrow gate

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    The narrow gate

    I'm reading a book called "The Greco-Roman World of the New Testament Era: Exploring the Background of Early Christianity". It's dry but contains a lot of useful information.

    Mat 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
    14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

    Every city in Israel had one or more outer gates that were open from sunrise to sunset. It was wide enough that merchants with large carts could enter in but not much more than that. The ones with the larger loads would typically stay around the gate because the way that lead away from the gate would soon become narrower as one moved towards the center of the city. The gate was wide and the way in and on from there was, at least for a little while, broad. Beside or somewhere nearby the wide gate there was a narrower gate that it was possible to enter through at night.
    Likewise, a large house would have a wide gate that one could enter through during the day and a narrower gate for when the wide gate was shut. Finding the narrower gate wasn't necessarily a straightforward task, if there was in fact one.

    The fact that the gate in verse 14 is narrow doesn't signifiy that few people can enter through, it signifies that he's talking about an alternative route into the city of God, the main route being the way of self righteousness - the one the Pharisees were experts on. It also means that one can't bring all ones luggage with one if one seeks to be able to enter through it.
    What about the way onwards ? The Greek word "difficult" means to be pressed, as in implying tribulation. It doesn't mean that the way onwards requires an enormous amount of righteousness in one's walk to qualify, it means that it will be tempting to divert from it because one will be pressed from both sides.
    What about the fact that few find it ? It doesn't imply that no more than a few percent of the population can possibly be saved, as in the Calvinist concept of God electing "a tithe". It means that few find it naturally. Placing some heralds around it may be a good idea.

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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    This kind of goes along with ‘eye of the needle’ when Jesus talked about it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle’ than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God because the tend to trust in their riches. The eye of the needle being a smaller door at night for travelers to get through and so named for its shape due to allowing a camel hump through. Signifying one having to give up or empty themselves to get through it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    This kind of goes along with ‘eye of the needle’ when Jesus talked about it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle’ than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God because the tend to trust in their riches. The eye of the needle being a smaller door at night for travelers to get through and so named for its shape due to allowing a camel hump through. Signifying one having to give up or empty themselves to get through it.
    According to wikipedia :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle#Gate

    The "Eye of the Needle" has been claimed to be a gate in Jerusalem, which opened after the main gate was closed at night. A camel could only pass through this smaller gate if it was stooped and had its baggage removed. This story has been put forth since at least the 15th century, and possibly as far back as the 9th century. However, there is no widely accepted evidence for the existence of such a gate.

    That would connect the two stories but is that interpretation really factual ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    This kind of goes along with ‘eye of the needle’ when Jesus talked about it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle’ than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God because the tend to trust in their riches. The eye of the needle being a smaller door at night for travelers to get through and so named for its shape due to allowing a camel hump through. Signifying one having to give up or empty themselves to get through it.
    One would at least have to empty oneself of one's self righteousness since salvation implies clinging to Jesus' righteousness instead.

    Recall that later in the same account Jesus says that it's impossible for man to be saved the way that he was talking about (by way of own righteousness including giving away everything one owns) but it is possible for God (by the new birth and infusion of Jesus' righteousness). So that particular needle's eye was in fact impassable.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    I know you guys believe this but just saying - the lack of historical evidence doesn't dispute the purpose of any teaching - if history reveals some truth then it's a bonus

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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    According to wikipedia :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle#Gate

    The "Eye of the Needle" has been claimed to be a gate in Jerusalem, which opened after the main gate was closed at night. A camel could only pass through this smaller gate if it was stooped and had its baggage removed. This story has been put forth since at least the 15th century, and possibly as far back as the 9th century. However, there is no widely accepted evidence for the existence of such a gate.

    That would connect the two stories but is that interpretation really factual ?
    I don't know and I don't teach it. I was just connecting the two since I had heard that other teaching before. As TT said, "the lack of historical evidence doesn't dispute the purpose of any teaching".

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    This passage is even more interesting :

    Luke 13:23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”
    And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
    25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’
    26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’
    27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’

    Again there is a main door or portal plus a narrow gate. The throngs are trying to enter in through the main door and the narrow gate is to the side. Someone standing inside the throng has to press hard to go sideways towards the narrow gate because everyone in the throng is pressing on towards the main door.

    Many of those heading for the main door will not be able to enter. Some of them will be standing outside the door after it has been shut at night time and they will no longer be taken into consideration for entry. Since they aren't going through the narrow gate, the master will simply go to the door from the inside and declare that he doesn't know them and it doesn't matter if they were previously in his presence or listened to his teachings in the street because the fact they haven't headed for the narrow gate proves that they aren't acquainted with him.

    Is it still possible to get in through the narrow gate now that the main door has been shut ? Yes, that's the purpose of the narrow gate. Only his acquaintances would know that his house has one and where it is though. And people that pay attention to something else than the quest to get in through the main door along with the throng.

    Now compare to the passage from Mat 7 that uses the same terminology. 7 verses further down, in the same speech, Jesus says the following :

    Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
    22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
    23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    What's the main problem here ? Apparently that they never entered through the narrow gate (verse 14). They were in his presence, heard him teach in the streets, they even prophecied and worked miracles in his name but they never gained entry into his house by letting go of self righteousness and going in through the narrow gate and thereby showing themselves to be his true acquaintances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I don't know and I don't teach it. I was just connecting the two since I had heard that other teaching before. As TT said, "the lack of historical evidence doesn't dispute the purpose of any teaching".
    Three gospels record Jesus' saying about "the eye of the needle". My Greek study Bible doesn't determine if the terms are in the definite forms (the eye of the needle = a specific one) or indefinite forms (an eye of a needle = any needle). But some manuscripts have "the eye of the arrow head" instead in Luke 18:25 which strongly suggests that it's just a (somewhat flexible) metaphor rather than a reference to the known name of a specific gate in Jerusalem.

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    One point. I believe in the gospel account Jesus is specifically referring to salvation because He refers to entering the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God in relation to the eye of the needle. In Matthew 7 I don’t believe the narrow gate and wide gate is necessarily talking about heaven and hell. It’s not the context of his teaching in Matthew 7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    One point. I believe in the gospel account Jesus is specifically referring to salvation because He refers to entering the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God in relation to the eye of the needle. In Matthew 7 I don’t believe the narrow gate and wide gate is necessarily talking about heaven and hell. It’s not the context of his teaching in Matthew 7.
    Some people claim that because they think that otherwise it would be talking about works salvation. Which it doesn't really since the speech starts with the wide and narrow gates (own vs imputed righteousness). But what else would the context be than salvation when taking all the elements into consideration ?

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