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Thread: Slavery

  1. #1
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Slavery

    The Bible has many scriptures on slavery and the OT law regulated it to where it was less ungodly than in the surrounding areas. Why didn't the OT law simply abolish slavery ? Probably because it wouldn't have made sense given the culture of those times. People typically sold themselves to slavery because they couldn't sustain themselves otherwise. Or they became slaves because they lost a war, which pretty much worked equally for everyone. Better than being killed or rotting in some dungeon I suppose.

    In the OT it was legal for Hebrews to take non-Hebrews as slaves. In the NT there are no regulations on trading slaves, it merely deals with people who already are masters or slaves. Masters aren't told to simply release their slaves but slaves are told to make use of an opportunity to purchase their freedom but aren't told to run away. Paul sent the runaway slave Onesimus back to his Christian master Philemon but told Philemon not to treat him harshly but rather as a Christian brother which is what he had become.

    Here's a very peculiar verse which deals with the topic :

    1 Tim 6:1 Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.

    It's a bit similar to the modern "as an employee honor your boss and do your work as unto the Lord" and the reason why is among other things that "the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed". Only that these were slaves. I'm sure the Roman empire had regulations on who could become a slave and that abducting free men to make them slaves was prohibited. But some of these people were slaves for life and basically worked for no pay other than food, clothing, shelter. Some of them were treated harshly. Their work was involuntary and for no pay, so the incentive for doing a good job was none.

    In our day noone would tell slaves to honor their masters. We would dismiss slavery as an ungodly institution, slave masters as living in sin and we would tell slaves to run away if the chance of succeeding with that was good. And slave masters to simply free their slaves at no charge.

    1 Tim 6:1 is a great example of a verse that is very cultural in nature, it deals with an environment where slavery was institutionalized in general and regulated by the government. It was of course different to the system of slavery in the Americas which was based on the abduction of free men in Africa and it wasn't based on racism against any particular group. But for us to apply the verse literally would amount to a horrible misinterpretation of what it is about.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Norwegians should be slaves to Aussies

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    Senior Member wheeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Norwegians should be slaves to Aussies

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Norwegians should be slaves to Aussies
    The Germans tried that but they are situated a wee bit closer than you are. Good luck with conquesting your way here...

  5. #5
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
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    Norway should be safe.


    US Marines are stationed in Norway to help deter Russia, and Norway may ask them to stay longer


    http://www.businessinsider.com/us-ma...-norway-2018-4

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The Bible has many scriptures on slavery and the OT law regulated it to where it was less ungodly than in the surrounding areas. Why didn't the OT law simply abolish slavery ? Probably because it wouldn't have made sense given the culture of those times. People typically sold themselves to slavery because they couldn't sustain themselves otherwise. Or they became slaves because they lost a war, which pretty much worked equally for everyone. Better than being killed or rotting in some dungeon I suppose.

    In the OT it was legal for Hebrews to take non-Hebrews as slaves. In the NT there are no regulations on trading slaves, it merely deals with people who already are masters or slaves. Masters aren't told to simply release their slaves but slaves are told to make use of an opportunity to purchase their freedom but aren't told to run away. Paul sent the runaway slave Onesimus back to his Christian master Philemon but told Philemon not to treat him harshly but rather as a Christian brother which is what he had become.

    Here's a very peculiar verse which deals with the topic :

    1 Tim 6:1 Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.

    It's a bit similar to the modern "as an employee honor your boss and do your work as unto the Lord" and the reason why is among other things that "the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed". Only that these were slaves. I'm sure the Roman empire had regulations on who could become a slave and that abducting free men to make them slaves was prohibited. But some of these people were slaves for life and basically worked for no pay other than food, clothing, shelter. Some of them were treated harshly. Their work was involuntary and for no pay, so the incentive for doing a good job was none.

    In our day noone would tell slaves to honor their masters. We would dismiss slavery as an ungodly institution, slave masters as living in sin and we would tell slaves to run away if the chance of succeeding with that was good. And slave masters to simply free their slaves at no charge.

    1 Tim 6:1 is a great example of a verse that is very cultural in nature, it deals with an environment where slavery was institutionalized in general and regulated by the government. It was of course different to the system of slavery in the Americas which was based on the abduction of free men in Africa and it wasn't based on racism against any particular group. But for us to apply the verse literally would amount to a horrible misinterpretation of what it is about.

    I TIM 1:10 was pretty explicit about it

    Berean Literal Bible
    for the sexually immoral, homosexuals, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and if anything other is opposed to being sound in the teaching,

    New American Standard Bible
    and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

    King James Bible
    For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

    Christian Standard Bible
    for the sexually immoral and homosexuals, for slave traders, liars, perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching
    Suffice to say that he couldnt have been talking about slavery in 1 tim 6:1

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    Ezekiel 33 (07-19-2018)

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Norway should be safe.


    US Marines are stationed in Norway to help deter Russia, and Norway may ask them to stay longer


    http://www.businessinsider.com/us-ma...-norway-2018-4
    I'm not so sure they would be able to stop the Aussies. It's hard to relate to aircraft, ships and tanks that all travel upsidedown.

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    tschau (07-19-2018)

  10. #8
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    I TIM 1:10 was pretty explicit about it
    Suffice to say that he couldnt have been talking about slavery in 1 tim 6:1
    I already talked about that in the OP. Slavery in the Roman empire revolved around war captives, criminals sentenced to slavery, people that had sold themselves into slavery and the offspring of slaves, not free men who had been abducted then sold as slaves. One could interpret 1 Tim 1:10 as condemning the practice of taking slaves during conquests but then the OT law allows that so it most probably refers to professional enslavers rather than to the Roman war machine.
    Last edited by Colonel; 07-18-2018 at 06:10 AM.

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  12. #9
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    I read in England where a rich Muslim couple hired a maid from a 3rd world nation but basically treated her like a slave and abused her....absolutely disgusting

  13. #10
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    I read in England where a rich Muslim couple hired a maid from a 3rd world nation but basically treated her like a slave and abused her....absolutely disgusting
    I agree. It seems to me that God chose not to abolish slavery and bondservitude outright through the OT law and the NT letters because it was too much an integral part of society and it would have backfired. The NT goes as far as recommending that slaves should obtain their freedom if they can which indicates where God wants things to head. A lot of the verses on women seem cultural in nature too but there is also "in Christ there is neither male nor female" which defines gender equality as a fundamental along with racial equality (Jew and non-Jew and various peoples are mentioned in the same verse). Which indicates that we aren't bound by the cultural aspects of the Biblical discussions on the topic of women, just as actual slaves today aren't bound by a literal application of the verses that discuss that topic in a cultural context. There is still a lot to gather from verses and passages that are cultural in nature. Including from verses on master-slave relations because they apply well to employer-employee relations in general.

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