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Thread: Who is doing what here ?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Who is doing what here ?

    Rev 22:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
    8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
    9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
    10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    A natural reading of the above verses works very well. Satan and the human beings he has deceived rally against God and God destroys them with fire from heaven.

    According to the theory presented on this forum that says that God's judgments are exclusively permissive, Satan must have been the one who poured fire on the human army so that they were destroyed. There is no natural phenomenon that will destroy an entire army surrounding a city with fire without the city itself being affected. Not unless it is guided by some supernatural power. So was that really Satan since God allegedly never ever ever does any harm to anyone ?

    In that case Satan is fighting himself and that cannot be, according to Jesus :

    Mat 12:25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.

    Especially considering that the end result is that Satan himself is cast into the lake of fire. Does Satan help God make that come to pass by destroying his own human army that is rallying against God ?

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    God is a consuming fire according to Hebrews 12:29 so this awesome fire comes from his very presence to consume his enemies

    Psalm 97:3 - A fire goes before Him, And burns up His enemies round about.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    God is a consuming fire according to Hebrews 12:29 so this awesome fire comes from his very presence to consume his enemies
    Yeah. And the very same fire has a refining effect on us, it purifies the gold while burning away the straw and stubble. And it will burn the chaff with unquenchable fire.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    I have on a few occasions felt incredible heat on my body. Not just warmth but hot
    One time as a youth leader I could feel intense heat when I was speaking to our youth group

    Sometimes the heat will be on a certain part of your body

    When God comes with fire it gets your attention very quickly

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    I have on a few occasions felt incredible heat on my body. Not just warmth but hot
    One time as a youth leader I could feel intense heat when I was speaking to our youth group

    Sometimes the heat will be on a certain part of your body

    When God comes with fire it gets your attention very quickly
    We are supposed to dwell with that fire rather than be at odds with it :

    Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid;
    Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites:
    “Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?
    Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?”

    There's an answer to their seemingly rhetorical question in the next verses :

    15 He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly,
    He who despises the gain of oppressions,
    Who gestures with his hands, refusing bribes,
    Who stops his ears from hearing of bloodshed,
    And shuts his eyes from seeing evil:
    16 He will dwell on high;
    His place of defense will be the fortress of rocks;
    Bread will be given him,
    His water will be sure.
    17 Your eyes will see the King in His beauty;
    They will see the land that is very far off.

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  9. #6
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Excellent verses


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    We are supposed to dwell with that fire rather than be at odds with it :

    Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid;
    Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites:
    “Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?
    Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?”

    There's an answer to their seemingly rhetorical question in the next verses :

    15 He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly,
    He who despises the gain of oppressions,
    Who gestures with his hands, refusing bribes,
    Who stops his ears from hearing of bloodshed,
    And shuts his eyes from seeing evil:
    16 He will dwell on high;
    His place of defense will be the fortress of rocks;
    Bread will be given him,
    His water will be sure.
    17 Your eyes will see the King in His beauty;
    They will see the land that is very far off.

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    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    My understanding of Rev 20:7-10 is that near the end of the 1000 year millennial reign of Jesus, satan will be released from his prison and lead a vast number of inhabitants of the earth in one final rebellion. It seems crazy that the devil would be able to gather an army of unbelievers at the end of the millennium. Who are these of whom satan deceives? The only logical answer I can conceive is that there will be a company of humans that will be alive when Christ returns to earth that will be allowed to enter and populate the millennial kingdom. The children born during Christ's Reign, will be born in sin and will need to be saved. It bewilders me to think that even in a time of peace and beauty as lawlessness is squashed and Christ's leadership reigns upon the earth, not all will accept Him as rightful King. Not even experiencing the tranquility and the ideal environment of the millennium will convince these insurgents to obey. God will destroy this army of ungodly rebels whom the devil has assembled to march against Jerusalem, the beloved city. Fire comes down from God out of heaven and consumes these rebel troops. And finally, after centuries of the devil wrecking havoc upon the human race and on the earth, satan himself is cast into the lake of fire and will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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  12. #8
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    My understanding of Rev 20:7-10 is that near the end of the 1000 year millennial reign of Jesus, satan will be released from his prison and lead a vast number of inhabitants of the earth in one final rebellion. It seems crazy that the devil would be able to gather an army of unbelievers at the end of the millennium. Who are these of whom satan deceives? The only logical answer I can conceive is that there will be a company of humans that will be alive when Christ returns to earth that will be allowed to enter and populate the millennial kingdom. The children born during Christ's Reign, will be born in sin and will need to be saved. It bewilders me to think that even in a time of peace and beauty as lawlessness is squashed and Christ's leadership reigns upon the earth, not all will accept Him as rightful King. Not even experiencing the tranquility and the ideal environment of the millennium will convince these insurgents to obey. God will destroy this army of ungodly rebels whom the devil has assembled to march against Jerusalem, the beloved city. Fire comes down from God out of heaven and consumes these rebel troops. And finally, after centuries of the devil wrecking havoc upon the human race and on the earth, satan himself is cast into the lake of fire and will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
    Why would saved people not rebel, Satan did....Not disagreeing but was thinking....is it impossible to believe millions would turn back? As difficult as it is to believe, perhaps some can and will...There is no such thing as irresistible grace...

  13. #9
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Why would saved people not rebel, Satan did....Not disagreeing but was thinking....is it impossible to believe millions would turn back? As difficult as it is to believe, perhaps some can and will...There is no such thing as irresistible grace...
    Those born in the millennium are human with a sin nature. If I understand some future events, (and my knowledge is very limited here) there are two classes of people who live in the 1000 year millennium period. The resurrected believers who were "caught up" at Jesus second coming, of which they enter into the millennium in there glorified bodies to never be tempted or subject to sin again. The humans who are born during the millennium, are born with a fallen nature, yet still have the power of choice to obey and serve the Lord Jesus Christ, or rebel. When satan is loosed, those who have been rebellious will show their true colors and will side with the devil. As far as irresistible grace, I would happen to believe the age of grace is over in the millennium as the Lord rules with a rod of iron (Rev 2:27).
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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