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Thread: Sound Doctrine

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    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Sound Doctrine

    Doctrine is Christian belief. Sound doctrine, or orthodoxy, reflects in summary form what Scripture affirms and what the church and believer is bound to believe, in contrast to heresy, which contradicts it. From its beginning, the church has constructed and lived out sound doctrine while opposing heresy. The church in the apostle Johns day, both "the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error" (1 Jn 4:6) were present. They are today, too. The Spirit of truth was heard in the apostolic teaching. Now it is heard through Scripture and through those who teach and expound that Scripture accurately. The spirit of error lives on in false teachers. The Spirit of truth and the spirit of error each have their respective audiences.

    Here are a few of the modern day heresies started by their heretical leaders:

    Vernon Howell, was excommunicated by the Seventh-day Adventist church. He started a cult in which he enticed young girls into becoming his sexual partners by naming them as "wives" and prophetically declaring that they had been commissioned by God to help him repopulate the earth. He was a master of manipulation. He controlled his followers in all areas of their lives including sleep, prayer, Bible study, diet, activities, reading, music, occupations, and finances. In 1990, Howell legally changed his name to David Koresh, founder of the Branch Davidians.

    Marshall Applewhite convinced 39 of his followers of shedding their "earthly containers" in order to enter a spaceship he said was trailing the tale of the Hale-Bopp comet. They believed they would be whisked away by benevolent ETs. It was in 1997 when 39 members of this cult participated in a group suicide in the wake of the Hale-Bopp comet known as Heavens Gate.

    Emanuel Swedenborg Founder: Swedenborgianism: Denies the * vicarious atonement of Jesus
    * deity of Christ
    * Trinity
    * deity of the Holy Spirit
    * all religions lead to God
    * salvation is by good works

    David Brandt Berg Founder: The family. Berg was known as Father David or Moses David. He encouraged sexual sharing among the membership. Berg also taught universal salvation and contact with spirits. He claimed that he himself made contact with Abraham, as his own spirit guide, as well as with other spiritual contacts with the dead.

    Charles and Myrtle Fillmore Founders: Unity School of Christianity:

    Denials:

    *the Trinity
    *deity of Christ
    *personality of the Holy Spirit
    *necessity of the atonement of Jesus for our sins
    *no heaven
    *no hell
    *no sin
    *no devil


    Victor Paul Wierwille Founder: The Way International. Denies: *doctrine of the Trinity
    *deity of Jesus
    *personhood and deity of the Holy Spirit
    *salvation by grace
    *Jewish Holocaust

    Word Of Faith (WOF).
    Although there are many within the church that accuse "WOF" of being heretical, and Kenneth E. Hagin being labeled as a heretic, I disagree.

    Those who say such statements seem to forget that the apostle Paul said that, "The just shall live by faith" (Rm 1:17) and "...the word of faith which we are preaching"(Rm 10:8). There were some preachers within the WOF that were teaching an unbalanced teaching in regards to money, giving and receiving that gave WOF a bad name.
    That's why brother Hagin wrote the "Midas Touch" in order to address the problem and bring proper balance. But as far as I'm concerned WOF is orthodox and sound in doctrine.

    Let me wrap this post up by saying we believers must stay within the Bible's doctrinal parameters. Satan's strategy has always been to oppose, subvert, and pervert biblical doctrine. It is the very truth that is under attack. But God has given us a weapon of defense. It is what Paul calls "the belt of truth" and "sword of the Spirit" (Eph 6:14,17).
    We must persist in sound doctrine, follow it, guard it, stand firm in it, and hand it on intact. It is the Bibles truth that sustains, strengthens, and guides us throughout our entire lives.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    The same ones that label WoF heresy tend to label most Charismatics heretics, especially if they have a practical relation to the gifts of the Spirit and miracles rather than a theoretical one.

    I don't think anyone who is currently on this site sees WoF as heresy rather there are aspects to it that grieve them. Aspects that not all WoFers would agree on, especially when it comes to how things are done rather than the theoretical foundation for them. "The prosperity message" for instance, that's an aspect and WoFers vary a lot on how they see prosperity.

    WoF was very much in vogue when I became a Christian in 89 but since then things have changed, partly because the WoF movement itself has changed and there are more excesses. That is probably what Hagin saw coming when he wrote that book "the Midas touch" in 99 because things got even worse later.

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    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The same ones that label WoF heresy tend to label most Charismatics heretics, especially if they have a practical relation to the gifts of the Spirit and miracles rather than a theoretical one.

    I don't think anyone who is currently on this site sees WoF as heresy rather there are aspects to it that grieve them. Aspects that not all WoFers would agree on, especially when it comes to how things are done rather than the theoretical foundation for them. "The prosperity message" for instance, that's an aspect and WoFers vary a lot on how they see prosperity.

    WoF was very much in vogue when I became a Christian in 89 but since then things have changed, partly because the WoF movement itself has changed and there are more excesses. That is probably what Hagin saw coming when he wrote that book "the Midas touch" in 99 because things got even worse later.
    Yes Colonel, I see your point clearly. When most hear the word prosperity, money seems to be the forefront of their thinking.
    The KJV dictionary defines prosperity as: Advancing in the pursuit of anything desirable; thriving; successful; making a gain or increase. There are several area's that this could relate too besides money. How about health, marriage, mind, diet; exercise; learning, relationships, and of coarse, work or business affairs. Prosperity covers a broad spectrum of more than just excelling in financial matters.

    Then there are those who attack WOF doctrine because of "healing" or Jesus death at Calvary affected Him "spiritually" (JDS). Confession of the word as it relates to an evil or good report etc.
    There is Scripture to authenticate the above topics in Mt 8:17 & James 5:14; 1 Pet 3:18 & 1 Tim 3:16; Prov 18:21 & James 3:2. The above false teachers I listed in the OP would of had (past or present tense) difficult time trying to deceive a seasoned believer who is well grounded in the word. The word of faith seems to be much more persecuted by countless heresy hunter websites which cast suspicion and a shadow of doubt and untrustworthiness upon those who walk according to WOF teaching.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how JDS follows from any other WoF doctrine or vice versa. Only that many of the WoF teachers happen to believe in both JDS and the other doctrines.

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    So here we can see the "real" false teachers are ones that reject fundamental bible truths, such as divinity of Christ, or that espouse universalism.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    So here we can see the "real" false teachers are ones that reject fundamental bible truths, such as divinity of Christ, or that espouse universalism.
    As a Pentecostal discussing theology on CARM I found that some people agreed with me on pretty much everything except when I started talking about Pentecostal issues. Some thought that that in and of itself was enough to qualify as a heretic, others weren't sure. Finding some strange doctrine except Pentecostalism makes it easier for people to brand "those crazy Charismatics" as heretics. But deep down in their hearts it could well be the Charismatic part that is the real problem for them.

  10. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    As a Pentecostal discussing theology on CARM I found that some people agreed with me on pretty much everything except when I started talking about Pentecostal issues. Some thought that that in and of itself was enough to qualify as a heretic, others weren't sure. Finding some strange doctrine except Pentecostalism makes it easier for people to brand "those crazy Charismatics" as heretics. But deep down in their hearts it could well be the Charismatic part that is the real problem for them.
    Yes, "those crazy Charismatics", that is classical prejudice regarding a group of people, based on stereotypical misrepresentation and ignorance. There was actually a time when us former Baptists accepted Charismatics as another "wing" of Christianity that emphasized the gifts and the Holy Spirit "more"...and it was OK, because we had a mature concept of 1 Cor 12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.

    But, unfortunately, some influential conservative pastors decided to create a hostile environment against Pentes and Charismatic with their divisive rhetoric and disparagement. And many followed their prejudices and negative attitudes, rather than hearing the thoughtful and humble responses to criticisms (by godly men like Jack Hayford).

    You could say that all too often, the attitude of the immature apostles in Luke 9 has prevailed by other Christians against Charismatics.
    [49] "Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."
    [50] "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."
    Charismatics, who also, incidentally practice driving out demons, are for a united Body of Christ, but so many despise and try and stop them "because he is not one of us."

    I shake my head, as I have seen the spirit of division take over, seemingly forgetting the words of Jesus in John 17:21,
    That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The same ones that label WoF heresy tend to label most Charismatics heretics, especially if they have a practical relation to the gifts of the Spirit and miracles rather than a theoretical one.

    I don't think anyone who is currently on this site sees WoF as heresy rather there are aspects to it that grieve them. Aspects that not all WoFers would agree on, especially when it comes to how things are done rather than the theoretical foundation for them. "The prosperity message" for instance, that's an aspect and WoFers vary a lot on how they see prosperity.

    WoF was very much in vogue when I became a Christian in 89 but since then things have changed, partly because the WoF movement itself has changed and there are more excesses. That is probably what Hagin saw coming when he wrote that book "the Midas touch" in 99 because things got even worse later.
    Generally speaking WoF is Biblical doctrine. God's will to save, heal, deliver all, etc. It's basically what the old timers 'giants of the faith' followed before it was actually called WoF, such as Lake, Wigglesworth, etc. The only real problem I have with it now is just some of the extreme prosperity teaching, and how some of them blatantly teach unscriptural financial things for momentary gain. I don't see Copeland and a few others that way per se, but there are definitely some out there.

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    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Generally speaking WoF is Biblical doctrine. God's will to save, heal, deliver all, etc. It's basically what the old timers 'giants of the faith' followed before it was actually called WoF, such as Lake, Wigglesworth, etc. The only real problem I have with it now is just some of the extreme prosperity teaching, and how some of them blatantly teach unscriptural financial things for momentary gain. I don't see Copeland and a few others that way per se, but there are definitely some out there.
    Soon after Bro. Hagin wrote the "Midas Touch" he called Kenneth Copeland, Jerry Savelle, Creflo Dollar, Jesse Duplantis, Mac Hammond, and Leroy Thompson and invited them to a personal meeting with himself. The purpose? To bring correction and address these ministers face to face in regards to error that was being taught as it related to the prosperity message and to personally give them a copy of the Midas Touch. Leroy Thompson refused to attend. Mac Hammond called Leroy to ask him if he was going to the meeting? He said no because God told him not to go. Rev. Hammond told Leroy that God told him that he was supposed to attend. Pastor Thompson never went to that meeting.
    Here is the Thompson clip right around that time period of the Hagin meeting that was announced. This was an example of some of the things going on back then that brother Hagin was concerned about. Fuego, you mentioned that there are some who teach blatant unscriptural financial things for monetary gain and I agree. Dr. Thompson was one of these ministers who did. Does he still do it? I don't know. I haven't heard him in a few years. But I will name a few names here of which is my opinion who are and still do teach blatant unscriptural financial things for monetary gain. Todd Coontz, Steve Munsey, Rod Parsley, Benny Hinn, Mike Murdock, and Paula White. This is my opinion which doesn't matter a whole lot, but it's what I believe.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    That's not the Spirit of God motioning that crowd in the video, that's for sure.

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