J.D., On a few occasions the negative reviews have convinced me more to buy a book than the positive ones.Originally Posted by Jonathan david
J.D., On a few occasions the negative reviews have convinced me more to buy a book than the positive ones.
Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
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Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
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Valiant Woman (01-16-2018)
VW, I tend to operate the same way. It started when I read The Charismatics 30+ years ago. I told myself, there is more to this story than what the 'slammers' are saying.
Ever since then, I try to follow an even-handed investigatory process.
Smart man.I just ordered "when Heaven Invades Earth." But I didn't order it so much based on your glowing endorsement. When I saw the a certain negative response to GIMJ's post then I began to think that perhaps it must be good book if some people recommend against getting his books.
Some people will never get it. They'd rather criticize than actually learn something.
Valiant Woman (01-16-2018)
Some of us have been there, done that.Smart man.
Some people will never get it. They'd rather criticize than actually learn something.
How Does God Express His Wrath?
Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? (Deuteronomy 31:17; KJV)
Wherefore the wrath of the Lord was upon Judah and Jerusalem, and he hath delivered them to trouble, to astonishment, and to hissing, as ye see with your eyes. (2 Chronicles 29:8; KJV)
Commentary: God’s “anger” and His “wrath” are the same thing. Both passages above explains how God expresses His wrath. In 2 Chron. 29:8, the word “delivered” is from the Hebrew word “nathan” and “The verb [nathan] signifies to permit” (George Phillips, The Psalms in Hebrew, p.116). When people continue to rebel against God, He does not exercise His wrath by personally destroying them through His omnipotent power. He exercises His wrath by removing His protection and permitting hostile forces to have their way with those He once protected.
Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org
Vindicating God Ministries
(A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15
There is nothing in those verses that define that as the only way. To the contrary, the verses I quoted above describe an entirely different way. The difference could be that the other verses deal with offenses directed at God and his presence as such, just like when people died for messing with the ark. Your verses discuss temporal judgments over people who sinned grievously in a more general manner.
How Does God Express His Wrath?
Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? (Deuteronomy 31:17; KJV)
Wherefore the wrath of the Lord was upon Judah and Jerusalem, and he hath delivered them to trouble, to astonishment, and to hissing, as ye see with your eyes. (2 Chronicles 29:8; KJV)
Commentary: God's "anger" and His "wrath" are the same thing. Both passages above explains how God expresses His wrath. In 2 Chron. 29:8, the word "delivered" is from the Hebrew word "nathan" and "The verb [nathan] signifies to permit" (George Phillips, The Psalms in Hebrew, p.116). When people continue to rebel against God, He does not exercise His wrath by personally destroying them through His omnipotent power. He exercises His wrath by removing His protection and permitting hostile forces to have their way with those He once protected.
"STARTING POINT! It's starting point has primarily been philosophical man-made ideas about what it is supposed to mean to be God. It has started with ideas about how God is supposed to act if He is almighty, sovereign, holy, a judge, etc. "
Yes, it is easy for people to create a concept of God that is "an extension of themselves" IF THEY WERE GOD.
For example, One might say to themselves something like this "Well, if God was omniscient, why would he be happy with Solomon and bless him early in his reign, if he knew he would be a womanizer and idolater at the end of his life. I certainly would not."
Gods ways are higher than our ways.
Colonel (01-15-2018)
I understand where you are coming from J. D. but I would say that the question with Solomon is a good starting point if one is looking to understand God's ways. If theology or the Bible doesn't make sense then we have already bought into an idea about omniscience that we refuse to allow any scrutiny of it. Hence, I would even add to my question how an idea of God calling Solomon to be king knowing that he would later sin is any different from the Calvinist's idea that God called Solomon to be king and decreed that he would sin.
Then I would have to add to my research on the topic the following:
Wherefore the Lord God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the Lord saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed. (1 Sam. 2:30)
Did God say this about Eli knowing that one day He would have to say this about Eli? And then:
And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the Lord thy God, which he commanded thee: for now would the Lord have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever. But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the Lord hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the Lord hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the Lord commanded thee. (1 Sam. 13:13-14)
Same question as above. Did God say this to Saul knowing later that He would say this to Saul or have we simply just accepted an idea of God's omniscience that we refuse to give up in the light of Scripture?
To fall back on the statement, "Gods ways are higher than our ways" is nothing more than laziness. First of all, it is quoting Isaiah 55:9 out of its contextual setting since God actually reveals His thoughts and ways to us in verses 7 and 8. He is only saying here that He is not sinful and unmerciful as men are but would rather men understood and conformed to His ways and His thinking. Second, to do so would again, be no different than the way it is used in Calvinism or among non-charaismatics who consign their ideas to God's sovereignty in opposition to the evil in this world as "mystery".
Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org
Vindicating God Ministries
(A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15
Ari (01-23-2018), fuego (01-15-2018), Valiant Woman (01-16-2018)
Another would be "Well if God doesn't know everything in advance he couldn't be God." That's a self-set prerequisite that somebody has set that would not allow them to believe anything anyone says about God not having absolute foreknowledge whether it's actually based on scripture or not. Where does the Bible say that if God doesn't have absolute foreknowledge of all events He couldn't be God? As a matter of fact there are scriptures that imply He doesn't know the future in totality. I'm saying this in regards to a doctrine such the 'openness' view of theology or 'Open Theism'. Not saying I agree necessarily, but just addressing pre-conceived notions that aren't clearly spelled out in scripture yet we base our who concept of who God is based on them. And I am open to the possibility because I'm not offended by a pre-conceived notion of how God has to be to really be God.
victoryword (01-16-2018)
Isaiah 41:22 “Let them bring forth and show us what will happen;
Let them show the former things, what they were,
That we may consider them,
And know the latter end of them;
Or declare to us things to come.
23 Show the things that are to come hereafter,
That we may know that you are gods;
I know, Isaiah forgot to use the word "absolute" in the verse.
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