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Thread: Authority of the Believer

  1. #21
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Faith must be based not on emotion but on the Word. The Spirit and the Word agree. They cannot be separated.
    Who said emotion? The Spirit and the Word do agree in application but He does not always agree with our interpretation....Most claim the Spirit taught them yet the diverse beliefs of Christians is astounding....and very contradictory.

    And you are right..they cannot be separated if one is to walk out truth in their life, and some teaching on the authority of the believer actually, in practice, does just that, elevates scripture above the revealing leading living presence of the Spirit by trying to live by the leading of scriptural interpretation rather than relationship...

  2. #22
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Many times faith is released when we don't sense anything from the Holy Spirit and you just act on obedience what the scripture says without any feelings or spiritual awareness that God is involved.

    One of the best healings I saw was when praying for a lady who was suffering from terrible back problems and was in a lot of pain for awhile. She had received prayer in the past and nothing seemed to happen.
    I was actually tired and my faith level was not high but prayed out of obedience and she was set free from all pain and the relief and comfort she had was great to see.

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  4. #23
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Many times faith is released when we don't sense anything from the Holy Spirit and you just act on obedience what the scripture says without any feelings or spiritual awareness that God is involved.

    One of the best healings I saw was when praying for a lady who was suffering from terrible back problems and was in a lot of pain for awhile. She had received prayer in the past and nothing seemed to happen.
    I was actually tired and my faith level was not high but prayed out of obedience and she was set free from all pain and the relief and comfort she had was great to see.
    I think what you are referring to is the ground level where you don't feel anything beyond what you are used to feeling. I remember being angry with God and feeling "nothing" and then the Holy Spirit showed me what I would feel if he removed himself - not entirely but in such a way that his presence would diminish a lot. That feeling was very empty, hollow, cold. Even though what I felt just before that seemed just normal. My flesh would have been happy with the new situation though.

  5. #24
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    It is impossible to separate the Word and the Spirit. The Word will always have power whether indoctrination or not. You cannot have faith in the Word alone without the Spirit. That is why a bum in some grubby hotel can pick up the Word and read it and it will convict him of his sins. That is why a person can go through an indoctrination and it will have meaning and power. It is because he believes, otherwise it is just words. However, even when there is no faith, the Spirit may plant seed in that person that will someday bring him to Christ.
    Last edited by Nikos; 10-02-2017 at 11:14 AM.

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  7. #25
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    It is impossible to separate the Word and the Spirit. The Word will always have power whether indoctrination or not. You cannot have faith in the Word alone without the Spirit. That is why a bum in some grubby hotel can pick up the Word and read it and it will convict him of his sins. That is why a person can go through an indoctrination and it will have meaning and power. It is because he believes, otherwise it is just words. OTH, even when there is no faith, the Spirit may plant seed in that person that will someday bring him to Christ.
    Jehovahs witnesses read a version of the Bible that is 99% correct all the time. See where it leads them.

  8. #26
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Many times faith is released when we don't sense anything from the Holy Spirit and you just act on obedience what the scripture says without any feelings or spiritual awareness that God is involved.

    One of the best healings I saw was when praying for a lady who was suffering from terrible back problems and was in a lot of pain for awhile. She had received prayer in the past and nothing seemed to happen.
    I was actually tired and my faith level was not high but prayed out of obedience and she was set free from all pain and the relief and comfort she had was great to see.
    I agree that faith is not feeling.....it's not emotion...it's confidence.

    I also agree praying for someone as an act of obedience to the scriptures is a good thing to do.

    However I also believe most who don't see any manifestation is because they are making a purely mental decision to mimic scripture.

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  10. #27
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    It is impossible to separate the Word and the Spirit. The Word will always have power whether indoctrination or not. You cannot have faith in the Word alone without the Spirit. That is why a bum in some grubby hotel can pick up the Word and read it and it will convict him of his sins. That is why a person can go through an indoctrination and it will have meaning and power. It is because he believes, otherwise it is just words. However, even when there is no faith, the Spirit may plant seed in that person that will someday bring him to Christ.
    "The Word will always have power whether indoctrination or not."

    The point is that you say the scriptures are inseparable from the Spirit... I challenge that statement to be proved...that statement implies the scriptures and the spirit are the same is not accurate and is, IMHO the whole problem....

    If I write a letter and say 'I love you' while those words are MY truth they are not Me...

  11. #28
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    When we say the scriptures and the Spirit are inseparable can actually hold 2 fundamental but very different beliefs...

    The word is NOT the Spirit and can be spoken and even acted upon apart from HIM...but HE will never speak, lead or act in ways contrary to scripture...

    But when we say the Spirit never speaks or leads contrary to scripture we have a more stable foundation...the Spirit gives life, He gives wisdom and understanding..He...not IT...

    So one be indoctrinated with scripture and have no or little LIFE working within...No one can come to the Father but by the Spirit...no one can spiritually HEAR without the Spirit...and no one can see miracles, signs and wonders or the gifts apart from the SPIRIT...and no one can be certain of the voice of the Spirit apart from scriptural confirmation...

    Scripture empowered by the faith that comes through the speaking living leading presence of the Spirit brings life...apart from HIM the scriptures are just words on a page...little more than.

    Don't interpret what I said as blasphemous...I believe the scriptures are the inspired and Spirit preserved truth and message....just not that it is God or the spirit...but that the Spirit is necessary for bringing it's truth to life within.

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  13. #29
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    When we say the scriptures and the Spirit are inseparable can actually hold 2 fundamental but very different beliefs...

    The word is NOT the Spirit and can be spoken and even acted upon apart from HIM...but HE will never speak, lead or act in ways contrary to scripture...

    But when we say the Spirit never speaks or leads contrary to scripture we have a more stable foundation...the Spirit gives life, He gives wisdom and understanding..He...not IT...

    So one be indoctrinated with scripture and have no or little LIFE working within...No one can come to the Father but by the Spirit...no one can spiritually HEAR without the Spirit...and no one can see miracles, signs and wonders or the gifts apart from the SPIRIT...and no one can be certain of the voice of the Spirit apart from scriptural confirmation...

    Scripture empowered by the faith that comes through the speaking living leading presence of the Spirit brings life...apart from HIM the scriptures are just words on a page...little more than.
    Traditional or cessationist type Christians that do believe in the Bible sometimes render the Holy Spirit as some kind of automatic performer of the Word, which means that he loses his individual identity except in theory. The Holy Spirit becomes "the Word at work" and nothing more than that.

  14. #30
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Traditional or cessationist type Christians that do believe in the Bible sometimes render the Holy Spirit as some kind of automatic performer of the Word, which means that he loses his individual identity except in theory. The Holy Spirit becomes "the Word at work" and nothing more than that.
    And often some Charismatic teaching (or believing)does the same thing....it emphasizes the WORD referring to scripture as if when quoting it one is automatically invoking the voice and will of God...

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