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Senior Member
Enoch and Elijah
Originally Posted by
Smitty
My wife and I and our four grand kids arrived at Bible camp today for a week on the Oregon coast. I had to check out this this thread after tonight's service before retiring to the pillow.
Satan had a serious problem on his hands when Jesus arrived down below. Jesus didn't inherit Adams sin nature. His sinless blood was not contaminated from the fall.
Yet He took our sin upon Himself, even to the point that He became sin so that redemption could become a reality to the fallen human race.
Everyone from Adam up to Jesus (minus Enoch and Elijah) was held in deaths grip by Satan in the belly of the earth. OT saints included. Jesus was in hell
illegally. He never sinned. He was sinless.
He had a
legal right to take the keys of death and hell from the devil and release the OT saints.
When the Father raised the Lord on the 3rd day, He raised a
new species (first born) that has never existed before. At the resurrection, or last trump, we will receive a new incorruptible body just like our Lords. Good night all!
Enoch and Elijah were OT patriarchs who did not experience an earthly death. Satan had no claim on these old covenant godly men.
I believe they will return in the great tribulation (Jacobs trouble) as the two witnesses found over in Revelation 11: 1-12. They will be killed and resurrected after they fulfil their mission during last days 42 month period.
If you put God First, you have Him at Last.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Smitty
Enoch and Elijah were OT patriarchs who did not experience an earthly death. Satan had no claim on these old covenant godly men.
I believe they will return in the great tribulation (Jacobs trouble) as the two witnesses found over in Revelation 11: 1-12. They will be killed and resurrected after they fulfil their mission during last days 42 month period.
That poses the new problem of how they supposedly skipped Hebrews 11:39-40. Enoch didn't since he is mentioned in the chapter and verse 39 says "all these".
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Hmmmm...so were Enoch and Elijah saved without the shedding of Messiah's blood? If they did, indeed, go straight to Heaven.....
Fodder for a new thread....
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Senior Member
Since Enoch is included in the list of faith heroes in Heb 11, we may substitute :
Heb 11:39 And Enoch, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
40 God having provided something better for us, that he should not be made perfect apart from us.
Without the new birth noone can enter and remain in heaven. The new birth was not available until Jesus resurrected as the firstborn from the dead. Enoch and Elijah's bodies were not glorified nor could they be until Jesus rose glorified. So the notion that they ascended bodily into heaven, remained there in the flesh then later return in the same body to Earth, is unscriptural. Basing the identity of the two witnesses in Revelation on who supposedly is in heaven in bodily form is unscriptural speculation. Jesus is the only human being who is in heaven in the flesh. He will return in the same flesh. People think they are receiving instructions from Enoch and Elijah returned in the flesh as we speak and they are deceived.
What happened to Enoch and Elijah, did they enter heaven and remain there without their bodies ? Did they go directly to "the bosom of Abraham" without technically dying physically first ? I don't know and I doubt that scripture answers those questions.
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Resident Chocolate Monster
Originally Posted by
Quest
Hmmmm...so were Enoch and Elijah saved without the shedding of Messiah's blood? If they did, indeed, go straight to Heaven.....
Fodder for a new thread....
it is my understanding that they would have gone to Paradise
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Lista
it is my understanding that they would have gone to Paradise
Paradise was a compartment in Hades, also called "the bosom of Abraham"". So would that be with or without dying physically first ? An other OT passage has the Korah rebels fall through holes in the ground, alive into Hades. How literally should we take that ?
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Resident Chocolate Monster
Originally Posted by
Colonel
Paradise was a compartment in Hades, also called "the bosom of Abraham"". So would that be with or without dying physically first ? An other OT passage has the Korah rebels fall through holes in the ground, alive into Hades. How literally should we take that ?
Well, Elijah and Enoch were the only OT people to pass on to Paradise without dying (that I know of, you'll have to show me where you're talking about the rebels)
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Senior Member
Numbers 16:33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
The literal Hebrew says Sheol where the KJV translates it as "the pit". It could possibly be interpreted as their merely going alive into their graves, dying after the earth closed upon them.
But what happened to the bodies of Enoch and Elijah ? Did they simply shed them ?
Last edited by Colonel; 07-24-2017 at 11:08 AM.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Colonel
But what happened to the bodies of Enoch and Elijah ? Did they simply shed them ?
After looking at some more Scripture on this subject, I am wrong. I said Enoch and Elijah did not experience an earthly death.
It is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment (Heb 9:27). As in Adam all die... (1Cor 15:22). According to these Scriptures, all men born after the fall have an appointment with death. There is no exceptions! Enoch and Elijah included. They were infected with the Adamic sin nature, so they could not have escaped an earthly death. Further more, Enoch and Elijah could have not been translated to heaven. Jesus said no one has ascended to heaven. yet the Son of Man descended from heaven (Jn 3:13).
Moses died and Elijah appeared with him at the Mount of Transfiguration (Lk 9: 28-36). Elijah must have died some time later after being caught up in the whirlwind. The Bible does not say Eliajh was not caught up into heaven (3rd heaven Gods throne). He must have been was translated to another place on earth in which he lived out his life.
Scripture says that all the days that Enoch was on earth was 365 years then God took him (Gen 5:23-24). The bible does not say that God took Enoch to heaven. God removed, translated him so that he was not found. God must have took Enoch and buried him after he completed living his life on this earth for 365 years. 1 Cor 15:22..."all in Adam die".
If you put God First, you have Him at Last.
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Senior Member
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God
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