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Thread: Falling from grace

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    Falling from grace

    Gal 1:6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,

    That's one way people manage to fall from grace, they quit believing the actual gospel by starting to believe something different. As Romans 11 talks about, we stand by faith and unbelief will lead God to cut us off. Faith isn't just believing something about God, it is faith in the risen Jesus.

    3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?

    He's talking about some of them basically returning to Judaism and seeking to attain righteousness by the law instead of by faith in Christ.

    4:8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.
    9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
    10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
    11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

    He's talking to Gentiles who originally did not know God but served idols. Then they believed the gospel, came to know God and were known by God. They were born again, for short. Now they are turning towards Judaism and abandoning the real gospel in the process.

    5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
    2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
    3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
    4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

    He's talking to people who are either in the process of turning to Judaism or have already turned to Judaism. They were into some kind of mix between Christianity and Judaism of course. When Paul visited Jerusalem in Acts 20 he was told that there were many converts to Christianity but many of them were zealous for the law. That was an error of course but some also taught that keeping the law was necessary for justification, which was what false teachers were teaching the Galatians.

    Verse 2 and on uses strong language so that they will understand the severity of what they are in peril of.

    "Christ will profit you nothing"
    "you are debtors to keep the whole law" (to be justified)
    "you have become estranged from Christ"
    "you have fallen from grace"

    All those statements describe someone who is no longer saved. If the person died he would stand before God and since Christ profits him nothing and he is enstranged from Him, God would declare him unrighteous and sentence him to hell. He would declare that the person has not kept the whole law and declare him unrigheous based on that. He would see that the person is fallen from grace and no longer stands in it by faith and declare him unrigheous according to his works. Quadruply no longer saved.

    5:7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?
    8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you.

    He reiterates that they previously did follow Christ and were previously saved. But was there hope for those who had bought into this new teaching concerning being circumcised and keeping the law for justification ?

    9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
    10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.

    He's telling them to separate themselves from the false teacher whose teaching is working its way through the Galatian church and to get in line with what he is teaching them in this letter, justification by faith and not by works. So there was hope for those who had been alienated from Christ and had fallen from grace. Hope by repenting and believing the real gospel again.

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    Cardinal TT (06-17-2017)

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    There are many falling from God's grace yet some believers say it's impossible. Crazy false beliefs are being embraced by once mature believers and they are poisoning many others.

    Reminds me of a minister who had a vision of the Great White throne judgment and saw a pastor and his wife who he knew standing before God and they were sent to God's left hand. There is nothing more frightening than to be rejected by God.

    Obviously this pastor and his wife had chosen to embrace lies, walk in them and teach others so major judgment was going to occur. They had not repented and been restored.

    I know many don't like to hear about stuff like this but I count it a privilege to be raised in Christian circles where godly people had powerful revelations of scripture where we heard about supernatural experiences.

    We don't rejoice to hear of those who have fallen away but consider it a blessing that God would speak so clearly and make the truth be known and not twisted by man's opinions and desires.

    God is love but that doesn't mean he ignores wilful rebellion and false teaching by Christians.
    Mercy is extended to repent but there is a time limit for that.

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    Nikos (06-19-2017)

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    It must be almost equally frightening to be told by well meaning Christians that since one has abandoned the faith therefore one cannot genuinely repent and hell is now one's certain destiny. The same Christians tend to be reluctant to define anyone as "no longer saved" and would rather believe that the Holy Spirit is in there somewhere as long as the person isn't a flaming apostate. After all, people do return to the faith and the question then is if they "really" abandoned it to begin with. So this doctrine can turn Christians into something close to OSAS in practical terms.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Reminds me of a minister who had a vision of the Great White throne judgment and saw a pastor and his wife who he knew standing before God and they were sent to God's left hand. There is nothing more frightening than to be rejected by God.
    I thought about that for a while now and there is one problem with the scenario, if it should be interpreted as their being surprised at the verdict that is. Final judgment happens at a specific time and between people dying physically and their standing before judgment they are elsewhere, either with Christ in heaven or in Hades. Hades and everyone in it being cast into the lake of fire comes after judgment. So based on their location after death and until judgment, they would know their final destiny in advance. Unless one believes in soul sleep for everyone but that doesn't work with a literal interpretation of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    When people stand before God in the final judgment they still have a false hope that maybe just maybe God will let them enter heaven even if they are currently in hades.

    There will be a time when all spirits in hades will come out to stand before the throne and in that brief time will claim to be righteous or good enough to enter heaven or have been in hades long enough etc etc

    The human heart is terribly deceived and people will say anything to avoid the final judgment

    Remember when Jesus said people will say ...Lord, Lord didn't we do this and that
    They will try to argue they were doing everything for God

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    When people stand before God in the final judgment they still have a false hope that maybe just maybe God will let them enter heaven even if they are currently in hades.

    There will be a time when all spirits in hades will come out to stand before the throne and in that brief time will claim to be righteous or good enough to enter heaven or have been in hades long enough etc etc

    The human heart is terribly deceived and people will say anything to avoid the final judgment

    Remember when Jesus said people will say ...Lord, Lord didn't we do this and that
    They will try to argue they were doing everything for God
    I can see some people imagining a second chance but a pastor and his wife should at least know better.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    "So there was hope for those who had been alienated from Christ and had fallen from grace. Hope by repenting and believing the real gospel again."

    Here is where we disagree.....you are saying they can be born again again....I do not believe Paul is telling them they are lost..He is telling them if they continue that path they will be..

    Here is my response to your conclusion...taken from an article with the link below...

    The problem is in the conclusion we draw, not in the premises. The whole issue here is what falling from grace means. Does it mean that the believers in question have fallen from their positional standing in grace? If it does, then Paul contradicts himself because in other passages he clearly states that is impossible (cf. Romans 8:38-39; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; Colossians 2:13-14; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 2 Timothy 2:13). Since scripture is God's Word, it cannot contradict itself. Thus, whatever Paul meant by falling from grace he did not mean falling from one's position as a child of God.
    http://faithalone.org/magazine/y1988/88jan1.html

    I agree faith in Christ alone is the path of salvation...I also believe once one has knowingly rejected HIM they are reprobate...not all who backslide have relinquished their faith in Christ alone for their salvation...in fact some cling to that alone for it...

    I do not agree with your conclusion that falling from grace equals loss of salvation and departure of the Spirit of God in that person's life...

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    When people stand before God in the final judgment they still have a false hope that maybe just maybe God will let them enter heaven even if they are currently in hades.

    There will be a time when all spirits in hades will come out to stand before the throne and in that brief time will claim to be righteous or good enough to enter heaven or have been in hades long enough etc etc

    The human heart is terribly deceived and people will say anything to avoid the final judgment

    Remember when Jesus said people will say ...Lord, Lord didn't we do this and that
    They will try to argue they were doing everything for God
    I also believe many Christians will stand before God amazed at who He lets in because they held fast to faith in Christ alone for their salvation...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    "So there was hope for those who had been alienated from Christ and had fallen from grace. Hope by repenting and believing the real gospel again."

    Here is where we disagree.....you are saying they can be born again again....I do not believe Paul is telling them they are lost..He is telling them if they continue that path they will be..

    Here is my response to your conclusion...taken from an article with the link below...

    http://faithalone.org/magazine/y1988/88jan1.html

    I agree faith in Christ alone is the path of salvation...I also believe once one has knowingly rejected HIM they are reprobate...not all who backslide have relinquished their faith in Christ alone for their salvation...in fact some cling to that alone for it...

    I do not agree with your conclusion that falling from grace equals loss of salvation and departure of the Spirit of God in that person's life...
    You're employing OSAS proof texts in an attempt to prove that Paul cannot be talking about loss of salvation in Galatians based on the notion that there is no such thing.

    I agree that if the Holy Spirit is in fact still present in the person then he acts as a seal guaranteeing redemption (as about half of your proof texts talk about), this is a fundamental of theology relating to personal salvation. That doesn't mean that he cannot depart while the person is still alive. Someone who is "estranged or alienated from Christ" cannot have the Holy Spirit, if they did then they would per definition not be estranged or alienated from Christ because that would amount to a contradition in terms at the most concrete level possible.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    You're employing OSAS proof texts in an attempt to prove that Paul cannot be talking about loss of salvation in Galatians based on the notion that there is no such thing.

    I agree that if the Holy Spirit is in fact still present in the person then he acts as a seal guaranteeing redemption (as about half of your proof texts talk about), this is a fundamental of theology relating to personal salvation. That doesn't mean that he cannot depart while the person is still alive. Someone who is "estranged or alienated from Christ" cannot have the Holy Spirit, if they did then they would per definition not be estranged or alienated from Christ because that would amount to a contradition in terms at the most concrete level possible.
    Nope....I don't view scripture as OSAS proof text since I do not believe there is any such thing...

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