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  1. #1
    Senior Member Valiant Woman's Avatar
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    Did satan create evil?

    These posts have been split off into their own topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    But Val...man IS the cause is he not? Might make an interesting topic for another thread...
    Yes, that would be a good discussion. But to answer your question, Satan is the creator of evil. If he hadn't rebelled against God, there would be no evil. So no, man is NOT the cause.
    Last edited by krystian; 02-28-2017 at 11:07 AM.
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    * Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy Farm Truck's Avatar
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    satan is the creator of evil
    Just a polite reminder... Jesus specifically said there is no truth in satan which means it's not possible for him to create anything.

    'ol slewfoot actually perverted righteousness and became the opposite of righteousness.

    This one of the things copeland was right about... which is handy to know since anything the enemy is doing is done in a way where he is copying what God does (such as seedtime and harvest) only in reverse so to speak

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Woman View Post
    Yes, that would be a good discussion. But to answer your question, Satan is the creator of evil. If he hadn't rebelled against God, there would be no evil. So no, man is NOT the cause.
    Satan is a fallen angel so again I disagree...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Woman View Post
    Yes, that would be a good discussion. But to answer your question, Satan is the creator of evil. If he hadn't rebelled against God, there would be no evil. So no, man is NOT the cause.
    Val, thank you for opting to discuss one aspect of the authors presentation...up to this point all that has been presented was denouncements that had no scriptural foundation...

    Val if MAN had not rebelled against God....man was given total dominion over the earth. He could have ordered Satan out of the garden..yes Satan committed the first act of rebellion but he did not bring it upon all men...he just suggested it...

    In the book the author states man chose to live INDEPENDENT of God and that is why evil and calamity came upon him...man alone is to blame for man's condition.

    By one man ADAM sin came upon all....

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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Woman View Post
    Yes, that would be a good discussion. But to answer your question, Satan is the creator of evil. If he hadn't rebelled against God, there would be no evil. So no, man is NOT the cause.
    Quote Originally Posted by Farm Truck View Post
    Just a polite reminder... Jesus specifically said there is no truth in satan which means it's not possible for him to create anything.

    'ol slewfoot actually perverted righteousness and became the opposite of righteousness.

    This one of the things copeland was right about... which is handy to know since anything the enemy is doing is done in a way where he is copying what God does (such as seedtime and harvest) only in reverse so to speak
    We all have the ability to create. This includes angels as well as men. Architects and engineers have the God-given creative ability to design buildings, cars, machines, etc. Artists have the ability to create pictures from their imagination. Authors have the ability to create stories that are original and have never been told before. Two people having sex have the ability to Pro-create and bring forth a child. So fallen or unfallen, God's creatures have the ability to create.

    The Bible does indeed tell us that Satan is the originator of evil, thus making him its creator. Using the same verse you just quoted:

    Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (John 8:44)

    The "father" of something is th one who brought into existence. It is true that He is a PERVERTER of hat is already in existence, but the perversion did not exist until he brought it about. Therefore, Satan is the creator of evil, semantically speaking.
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  8. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Satan is a fallen angel so again I disagree...
    See my reply to Agricultural Vehicle above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Val, thank you for opting to discuss one aspect of the authors presentation...up to this point all that has been presented was denouncements that had no scriptural foundation...

    Val if MAN had not rebelled against God....man was given total dominion over the earth. He could have ordered Satan out of the garden..yes Satan committed the first act of rebellion but he did not bring it upon all men...he just suggested it...

    In the book the author states man chose to live INDEPENDENT of God and that is why evil and calamity came upon him...man alone is to blame for man's condition.

    By one man ADAM sin came upon all....
    Once again I will not speak against a book that I have not read. But I will speak to the comments. The Bible expressly states that, while man has freedom to choose between good and evil, and man is indeed to blame for the evil on the earth, it would be wrong to leave Satan absent from the equation. The Bible is very clear that Satan is behind the perversions and evil of men (John 8:44; 2 Cor. 4:4; Acts 26:18; Col. 1:12-14; 1 John 3:8-12; Eph. 2:1-5; 6:10-12).

    I believe, like ValW, we make a serious mistake by dismissing Satan's role in this deal. Jesus recognized the influence of satan and demons in the lives of men and he went after that by casting out demons and REBUKING sickness. Recognizing Satan's role is important for any true Biblical discussion on the subject of evil. Apart from this any teaching on the subject is incomplete and offers no lasting solution.
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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    We all have the ability to create. This includes angels as well as men. Architects and engineers have the God-given creative ability to design buildings, cars, machines, etc. Artists have the ability to create pictures from their imagination. Authors have the ability to create stories that are original and have never been told before. Two people having sex have the ability to Pro-create and bring forth a child. So fallen or unfallen, God's creatures have the ability to create.

    The Bible does indeed tell us that Satan is the originator of evil, thus making him its creator. Using the same verse you just quoted:

    Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (John 8:44)

    The "father" of something is th one who brought into existence. It is true that He is a PERVERTER of hat is already in existence, but the perversion did not exist until he brought it about. Therefore, Satan is the creator of evil, semantically speaking.
    Manipulating matter is not the same as calling into existence what is NOT..I believe that was FT's point and I agree..Satan did not create evil...evil was merely him opting to disobey...he CREATED nothing. "'ol slewfoot actually perverted righteousness and became the opposite of righteousness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    See my reply to Agricultural Vehicle above.



    Once again I will not speak against a book that I have not read. But I will speak to the comments. The Bible expressly states that, while man has freedom to choose between good and evil, and man is indeed to blame for the evil on the earth, it would be wrong to leave Satan absent from the equation. The Bible is very clear that Satan is behind the perversions and evil of men (John 8:44; 2 Cor. 4:4; Acts 26:18; Col. 1:12-14; 1 John 3:8-12; Eph. 2:1-5; 6:10-12).

    I believe, like ValW, we make a serious mistake by dismissing Satan's role in this deal. Jesus recognized the influence of satan and demons in the lives of men and he went after that by casting out demons and REBUKING sickness. Recognizing Satan's role is important for any true Biblical discussion on the subject of evil. Apart from this any teaching on the subject is incomplete and offers no lasting solution.
    "Apart from this any teaching on the subject is incomplete and offers no lasting solution."

    Two things going on here..1. Is man solely responsible? 2. And is the absence of mentioning Satan in the book an indicator that it is false or misleading?

    We do need to somewhat keep this on topic...in the BOOK the 'god' says man's choice to declare independence from God caused the suffering ad sickness and evil in the world...True or false?

    Could Satan corrupt the world with suffering and pain without Adam choosing to let him? By one man ADAM....period. Satan I the tempter but he did not CAUSE the fall...he could have done NOTHING had Adam kicked him out of the garden.

    Now is there a necessity to add blame to Satan in the context? I think not because the context in the discussion was BLAME toward God.

    So Satan is the tempter but MAN was given dominion and that included Satan...so the point was that MAN brought the condition of the world and Satan is not to BLAME because he had no power to do that apart from man's decision...


    The author makes it clear the book is not a Systematic Theology although it does contain theological truths...

    If I am not mistaken Galatians does not mention Satan or the devil?...that fact neither discredits the message of the book, nor does it imply a lack of existence or influence.....so my point is that it seems disingenuous to claim a book is heresy because it omits Satan..especially when it does point to the sole reason for man's fall....man..

  12. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Manipulating matter is not the same as calling into existence what is NOT..I believe that was FT's point and I agree..Satan did not create evil...evil was merely him opting to disobey...he CREATED nothing.
    Based on your own definition of what it means to create, Satan definitely created. First sin is not "matter" and it was not in existence. There was no disobedience in existence. Satan brought sin into existence through his rebellion. Therefore, Satan created evil.

    Now, we can play this semantics game all day long if you like.
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  13. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    We do need to somewhat keep this on topic...in the BOOK the 'god' says man's choice to declare independence from God caused the suffering ad sickness and evil in the world...

    Now is there a necessity to add blame to Satan in that context? I think not because the context as BLAME toward God..

    So Satan is the tempter but MAN was given dominion and that included Satan...so the point was that MAN brought the condition of the world and Satan is not to BLAME because he had no power to do that apart from man's decision...
    Then it seems that you and I are not reading the same Bible. God's Word gives Satan just as much responsibility for the evil conditions that exist in this world as he does man.

    Romans 5:12-14
    12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    Heb. 2:14
    14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
    15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

    Furthermore, the Bible is very clear that unsaved men are under Satan's sway and control. I gave you a few references but there are much more, such as the following:

    1 John 5:19 (NKJV)
    19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

    Hence, if Young's theodicy totally excludes the devil from the equation then it is an incomplete understanding of the problem of evil. There has to be more behind Hitler's slaughter of six million Jews, the intense persecution and martyring of Christians around the world in Muslim and communist countries, and even the evil behind the militant gay and abortion agendas than just simply men and women making choices for evil.

    When you read Revelation 20 and see that there is no lasting peace on earth until Satan is bound for 1000 years and then rebellion only starts again after he is released, then there is something more to evil than just man's choice alone.
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