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Thread: Michael Brown Addresses Future Sins Forgiven

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    So ?
    I think we're just going in circles at this point. The "so" is that if it's faith in the blood of Christ that atones for our sins, IF there is indeed a "buffer zone" for the forgiveness of unconfessed sins (there isn't), that too is based soley on the blood of Christ. In short, those unconfessed sins are forgiven the same way our past sins were forgiven, by faith in the blood. There is no "relational" buffer zone based on anything other than the blood atonement. If a person dies with an unconfessed sin and enters into heaven, that demonstrates that the sin was under the blood the same way as any other sin the person committed. If I lust today and die tonight, the only way I gain entrance into heaven is because that lustful thought was atoned for just as all my other past sins were atoned for. This is the very reason Paul asks the rhetorical question in Romans 6:15 "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace?"

  2. #22
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    You enter the buffer zone by faith and you depart from the buffer zone by unbelief. Without faith the blood of Jesus does nothing to your sins and you stand unrighteous before God.

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  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    You enter the buffer zone by faith and you depart from the buffer zone by unbelief. Without faith the blood of Jesus does nothing to your sins and you stand unrighteous before God.
    I think you're missing my point. Faith cannot save you apart from the blood of Christ. The opening post was Dr. Brown's response to part of the hyper-grace movement (of which I am not a part, though I agree with some of it). It was whether or not our future sins are also forgiven when we're saved, not just our past sins. My point was that I'm sure almost everyone here believes that if you die tomorrow having sinned tonight, you will still go to heaven. I'm saying the only way that's possible is if that sin, though unconfessed due to time constraints, is still covered by the blood of Christ. This is NOT because there is a "buffer zone" but because of the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice that covers even that sin you committed moments before your death. It covers the sin you will commit tomorrow. But as Paul advises, don't go sinning just because it won't be credited against you. Heaven forbid!

    "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Romans 4:8)

  5. #24
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Bookie
    You have built up this strawman and defending it without realising God can do alot of thing you don't even consider


    How do you know that the sins of a true christian who died cannot be cleansed after he died and before his spirit enters heaven????
    There is actually a process of entering heaven for the departed soul of a believer.

    You are comparing apples and oranges.
    You CANNOT say the dead spirit of a person who needs cleansing by the blood is exactly similar to the spirit of a saved believer who has sinned and compare them entering heaven.......You need to think that through

    The spirit of a saint has a DIFFERENT spirit to an unsaved spirit so God looks at it totally different - blood is still needed but THEIR SPIRIT IS DIFFERENT

  6. #25
    Cardy, I have a hard time following your post. This line
    How do you know that the sins of a true christian who died cannot be cleansed after he died and before his spirit enters heaven????
    needs some Scriptural support before I consider it. My belief is that we are only cleansed during our life here on earth. To believe we can be cleansed of sin after death is a foreign idea to me. I don't see it in Scripture. Sounds like Purgatory.

  7. #26
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    Cardy, I have a hard time following your post. This line needs some Scriptural support before I consider it. My belief is that we are only cleansed during our life here on earth. To believe we can be cleansed of sin after death is a foreign idea to me. I don't see it in Scripture. Sounds like Purgatory.

    It's foreign because people equate 'the spirit of a believer' SIMILAR to the 'spirit of a sinner' - they are totally opposite

    Firstly is the 'spirit of a believer' the same as the 'spirit of a sinner' ??????

    If they are different then God acts accordingly to relationship

    It has nothing to do with purgatory - you still enter heaven without suffering for a time

    1 John 5:17 - All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

  8. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    It's foreign because people equate 'the spirit of a believer' SIMILAR to the 'spirit of a sinner' - they are totally opposite

    Firstly is the 'spirit of a believer' the same as the 'spirit of a sinner' ??????

    If they are different then God acts accordingly to relationship

    It has nothing to do with purgatory - you still enter heaven without suffering for a time
    A believer has been spiritually reborn. A sinner's spirit is dead. God reckons a sinner's sins against him. God reckons a true believer's sins as non-existent (forgiven). He doesn't even remember them.

  9. #28
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    A believer has been spiritually reborn. A sinner's spirit is dead. God reckons a sinner's sins against him. God reckons a true believer's sins as non-existent (forgiven). He doesn't even remember them.
    That's true but your last comment is wrong - when a believer sins it is still relevant and needs cleaning but it does not make the spirit 'unborn again'

    You are stuck on thinking a saint who sinned needs to be cleansed like a 'unborn again' sinner '

    John wrote this to explain the difference - 1 John 5:17 - All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

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  11. #29
    Cardy, we just disagree on this. I don't think either of us will change our mind.

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  13. #30
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    Cardy, we just disagree on this. I don't think either of us will change our mind.

    Of course I still respect you regardless of not agreeing


    I don't want to sound super spiritual but there are certain unusual things that happen we don't fully understand
    An example and this happened to a young believer who had no previous concept or 'doctrine' of this sort of thing

    I know this person he was in my youth group when I was the Youth Pastor

    He was born again, baptised in water, spoke in tongues and committed to God but he had a weakness in an area and kept doing this particular sin

    He came up for prayer and was slain in the spirit/fell down but God gave him a supernatural experience and I love the fact that God gave it to a young believer who wasn't trying to make up doctrine.

    He was still standing up and he could see his physical body lying on the floor. He is experiencing what the scripture calls 'in the spirit'
    It was his spirit man standing up which is the real person and he was clothed in a beautiful white robe - which is the robe of righteousness

    What was God showing him......he was saved and cleansed from sin hence the white robe

    He then looked down and saw a black round spot a few inches in diameter on his side.
    Now lets examine this - why does he have a black stain on his beautiful white robe

    Now he is too young in the faith too perceive what is going on but thinks to himself ...'what is that 'black stain'
    The Holy spirit IMMEDIATELY speaks and says - That is ........(and he names the sin this person was doing which I won't name here)

    I heard this testimony from his own mouth

    What can we deduce from this experience and it can be verified from the scriptures

    A christian is clothed with a white robe that can be contaminated with sin hence the black spot - this does not mean he is unsaved
    This person can still enter heaven because his heart is cleansed by the blood but he has a sin stain on his robe - this explains the sin stain I quoted from 1 John that not all sins lead to death

    It also means that all future sins are not automatically forgiven - hence the Holy Spirit telling this person the name of that sin

    This brother still had to come to God not out of begging as a vile sinner but in love and faith and be cleansed from that specific sin but at the same time receive grace to totally overcome this sin he struggled with.

    The Holy Spirit gave him that revelation out of love to help him see himself....he was still saved even though he had a sin weakness
    All future sins are definitely not automatically forgiven hence a black spot on his white robe
    He was still saved even if he died at that specific time with that black spot because his whole robe was white and clean which represents his born again spirit man

    I hope I have adequately explained this

    These scriptures relate to all weaknesses we may face even sin issues
    v 16 says mercy and grace...why are both needed
    mercy relates to all current forgiveness needed
    grace relates to defeating all current opposition and living victoriously

    Heb 4:14 - Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
    Heb 4:15 - For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
    Heb 4:16 - Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

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