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Thread: Community Bible Study

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDoles View Post
    I've got a lot I can say about it, and have said elsewhere. But I don't want it to end up being one person leading. I would rather see some discussion happen, and I thought this would be a good discussion question.
    Actually, there is no discussion as of yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDoles View Post
    Well, for instance, in verse 2, Paul says, "the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures." What does that suggest about the gospel in relation to the OT. And how did the OT speak about the gospel?
    The only leading I see going on is your questions.

    Just spit it out.
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

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  3. #12
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    I went to the Strong's Concordance, and gospel in verse 1 is the same as gospel in verse 16.
    gospel [2098] - a good message, i.e. the gospel:--gospel.
    http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

    So, I see them all as the same....if someone is taking the verses and inserting more importance to one than another I surely do not know why. You'll have to explain on that one Jeff.

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  5. #13
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    I do find this verse interesting as well.
    "11 I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual[5496] gift[4152] to make you strong[4741]— 12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged[4837] by each other's faith[4102]."


    Gift is actually translated as 5496. cheiragogeo khi-rag-ogue-eh'-o from 5497; to be a hand-leader, i.e. to guide (a blind person):--lead by the hand.

    and Spiritual is: 4152. pneumatikos pnyoo-mat-ik-os' from 4151; non-carnal, i.e. (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious:--spiritual. Compare 5591.

    strong: 4741. sterizo stay-rid'-zo from a presumed derivative of 2476 (like 4731); to set fast, i.e. (literally) to turn resolutely in a certain direction, or (figuratively) to confirm:--fix, (e-)stablish, stedfastly set, strengthen.

    encouraged 4837. sumparakaleo soom-par-ak-al-eh'-o from 4862 and 3870; to console jointly:--comfort together.

    faith 4102. pistis pis'-tis from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

    To me, this is saying that Paul isn't going to magically impart some "spiritual gift" but guide them...spiritually...so that they will be firmly set on the path that God would have them travel, and that in doing so Paul will receive just as much encouragement.

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  7. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lista View Post
    I do find this verse interesting as well.
    "11 I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual[5496] gift[4152] to make you strong[4741]— 12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged[4837] by each other’s faith[4102]."

    Gift is actually translated as 5496. cheiragogeo khi-rag-ogue-eh'-o from 5497; to be a hand-leader, i.e. to guide (a blind person):--lead by the hand. ...
    Perhaps your reference Bible has a typo.

    The word for gift is Charisma

    G5486

    Rom 1:11 ForG1063 I longG1971 to seeG1492 you,G5209 thatG2443 I may impartG3330 unto youG5213 someG5100 spiritualG4152 gift,G5486 to the end yeG5209 may be established;G4741

    charisma
    char'-is-mah
    From G5483; a (divine) gratuity, that is, deliverance (from danger or passion); (specifically) a (spiritual) endowment, that is, (subjectively) religious qualification, or (objectively) miraculous faculty: - (free) gift.

    Thayer Definition:
    1) a favour with which one receives without any merit of his own
    2) the gift of divine grace
    3) the gift of faith, knowledge, holiness, virtue
    4) the economy of divine grace, by which the pardon of sin and eternal salvation is appointed to sinners in consideration of the merits of Christ laid hold of by faith
    5) grace or gifts denoting extraordinary powers, distinguishing certain Christians and enabling them to serve the church of Christ, the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating on their souls by the Holy Spirit

    Part of Speech: noun neuter
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G5483
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

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  9. #15
    I guess the first verse sets the tone for this Chapter:
    1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God.
    Such an high calling and responsibility to be set apart for the gospel.

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  11. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post
    Perhaps your reference Bible has a typo.

    The word for gift is Charisma

    G5486

    Rom 1:11 ForG1063 I longG1971 to seeG1492 you,G5209 thatG2443 I may impartG3330 unto youG5213 someG5100 spiritualG4152 gift,G5486 to the end yeG5209 may be established;G4741

    charisma
    char'-is-mah
    From G5483; a (divine) gratuity, that is, deliverance (from danger or passion); (specifically) a (spiritual) endowment, that is, (subjectively) religious qualification, or (objectively) miraculous faculty: - (free) gift.

    Thayer Definition:
    1) a favour with which one receives without any merit of his own
    2) the gift of divine grace
    3) the gift of faith, knowledge, holiness, virtue
    4) the economy of divine grace, by which the pardon of sin and eternal salvation is appointed to sinners in consideration of the merits of Christ laid hold of by faith
    5) grace or gifts denoting extraordinary powers, distinguishing certain Christians and enabling them to serve the church of Christ, the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating on their souls by the Holy Spirit

    Part of Speech: noun neuter
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G5483
    Oh my word. I double checked it against my Strong's Concordance, and then looked again at my Interlinear Bible, and sure enough...there is a typo. Thank you!

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  13. #17
    Nice thread, I'll share some of my thoughts.

    Concerning Romans, the Thomas Nelson commentary on Romans says,

    "No other portion of Holy Scripture so completely sets forth the great doctrines of the Christian faith as does Paul's Epistle to the Romans. No other product of the pen has ever more powerfully confronted the mind of man with the great truths of God."

    I believe that Romans is essentially the very heart of the Gospel. If a person were to only understand one book, make it Romans. Martin Luther came to his understanding of salvation while studying Romans. He had this to say:

    "This epistle is really the chief part of the New Testament, and is truly the purest Gospel. It is worthy not only that every Christian should know it word for word, by heart, but also that he should occupy himself with it every day, as the daily bread of the soul. We can never read or ponder over it too much"....
    ________ Martin Luther


    This quote comes from Luther's preface to his commentary on Romans, it was while reading this preface that John Wesley got saved.

    Karl Barth, who many regard as one of the 20th centuries greatest theologians, made his name with a commentary on Romans.

    Martin Luther continues in his commentary on the value of knowing the terms, he states,

    “To begin with, we must have knowledge of its language and know what Paul means by the words "law," "sin", "grace," "faith," "righteousness," "flesh," "spirit," and the like.

    Otherwise no reading of the book has any value…. Without such a grasp of these words, you will never understand this letter of St. Paul, nor any other book of Holy Scripture.”

    Let me add one more opening statement, John Calvin said of Romans,

    “When one understands this Epistle, he has a passage opened to him to the understanding of the whole Scripture”

    In the Thomas Nelson commentary it states,

    “The study of Romans is the fittest starting point for Biblical interpretation and theology.” It goes on to claim, “One cannot say what might if Christians undertake an intensive study of this Epistle. What happened to Augustine, Luther, Calvin and Wesley, which left a mark on the world, could happen to us today. So, let the reader beware.



    ROMANS 1

    THIS PRESENT DARKNESS


    1.) Separated unto…


    1:1
    Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

    A servant…


    Doulos: slave or bondservant

    Paul starts off by declaring his relationship with Christ. The term that the KJV gives as “servant” in the Greek is “doulos”. It is often translated as “slave” or “bond-slave”.

    People are normally made slaves against their will, but here Paul voluntarily bends his knee to Christ and calls himself a “slave” of Christ. Paul completely gave up his own life, and became a slave of Christ for the sake of the Gospel, in order that Christ’s church may be established. He counted everything of this world as a loss, in order that others may hear the Gospel.


    called to be an apostle…

    The expression “to be” isn’t in the Greek. Paul is simply saying, “Paul, called Apostle”. He wasn’t in the process of becoming an Apostle, he was stating his ministry office.

    The term for called here is Kletos.

    Kletos: called to the discharge of some office, divinely selected and appointed

    As an adjective, Kletos would function as a modifier for the noun Apostle. It could be viewed as the type of Apostle. I believe that Paul in a way is saying that he is the "real deal", sent by God. There is an old expression, "some were sent and some just went". The point is that there are those in the ministry that are called by and sent by God, and then there are those who were just looking for a career, whether for position or power or influence.


    Separated unto…

    Notice that Paul didn’t say he was separated from something, but rather unto the Gospel. Paul was forward looking, as we should be. He wasn’t looking behind at what he left, but rather his focus was on where he was going.

    The Greek term for separated is aphorizo and it is the word from where we get our term horizon. In a way you could say that when God separates us unto himself we get a brand new horizon.

    Aphorizo: set aside unto a purpose

    Many people when they become Christians focus on what they left. They emphasize what they left behind. That’s looking over your shoulders, behind you. Paul’s focus was on being separated unto God, rather than being separated from something. People say, “I don’t do this or that anymore”, well that’s good, but unto what are you separated? The idea is not so much of leaving something, but rather of going to someone. Going to God, will naturally cause those other things to fall to the wayside.

    I like reading the Martin Luther version and the term he uses for separated is “ausgesondert” , the root of this is “sondern”, which means special. A rough rendering of this term, to get the flavor of it would be, “separated out, made special”. And that’s true of all Christians; we have been separated out and made special.

    Ausgesondert: separated out, made special

    The gospel of God…

    This isn’t man’s Gospel; man did not create the Gospel, or man’s idea of religion. Man did not create the Gospel. This is God’s call unto mankind of the offer of redemption. This is the Gospel of God. The gospel of God and the Gospel of Christ are simply two different ways of referring to the same message.

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  15. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by hansc View Post
    Nice thread, I'll share some of my thoughts....
    Nicely done Hans, thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDoles View Post
    I bring it up because this is how Paul introduces himself in verse 1: as one who has been set apart for the gospel. Then in verse 2, be begins describing something about that gospel for which he was set apart. He calls it the "gospel of God."

    Many people jump to verse 16, where Paul says he is not ashamed of the "gospel of Christ," because it is the power of God to every one who believes, Jews and then Gentiles. But the "gospel of Christ" is verse 16 is the same as the "gospel of God" in verse 1. So what is this powerful gospel he refers to in verse 16? It is described in verses 2-6, in which Paul speaks about the gospel in a way that we are often not accustomed to.

    We may be familiar with the "Four Spiritual Laws" as a presentation of the gospel. We may be familiar with the "Romans Road" presentation, in which we skip through several verses in Romans. But here in these first verses of his letter, Paul actually describes the gospel he was set apart to preach. So I would like to raise the question for discussion about how does Paul describe the gospel in those verses?
    Jeff you were leading us somewhere, please continue.

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  17. #19
    2.) Concerning His son Jesus

    1:3-4
    Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh, And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead

    Concerning his Son….


    The Greek term for “concerning” is “peri“. We get our term periscope, and perimeter from it. It involves the meaning of encirclement. The Gospel of God is all about Jesus. It’s that simple.

    I believe that as we continue in this study, we will have lots of different views, and that’s OK, that’s what discussion is all about. A person can hold on to a lot of peculiar ideas, but the bottom line will always revolve around a personal relationship with Jesus. All of this, revolves around the person of Jesus. It’s all about Him. God has not called us to be geniuses of God, He has called us to be children of God.

    Peri: about, concerning, on account of, because of, around, near

    Jesus Christ our Lord….

    There it is, the meaning of it all. Jesus is the gospel and the meaning of all history. In this name, worlds collide, one above, the other below, one known, the other unknown. In Christ, the worlds intersect. He is the bridge between the two.

    This known world of fallen creation intersects with the unknown realm of the Father, the realm of light, glory and final redemption in the person of Jesus.

    The observable intersection of these two worlds is Christ Jesus. Do you want a glimpse of heaven? Look to Jesus.


    made of the seed of David according to the flesh, And declared to be the Son of God …

    The man Jesus of Nazareth, after the flesh had a historical beginning. We celebrate His incarnation at Christmas. This was His beginning in this world.

    Yet, as the Son Of God, He was not made, but rather declared. Jesus is God, the creator in the flesh. Jesus, the Son of God has no beginning, He is the Alpha and Omega, the all mighty God.

    Here is Christ, perfect man and perfect deity. He is the unknown world revealing itself to this known world.

    by the resurrection …

    Christ is declared to be the Son at the resurrection. In this Christ is both the beginning and end of history. At the resurrection the stone was rolled away and the Word of God was let loose upon a dying world.

    The resurrection reveals and openly declares that Jesus is the Son of God in power. It is the death knell of the kingdom of darkness. In His body, Christ has transformed the flesh, and by that transformation, we know that we also will be one day transformed. In His transformed body, Christ openly shows the first fruit of the world to come.

    In His resurrection He shows the world to come. In the resurrection, He became the “only begotten Son”

    Some believe that because the Scriptures call Christ the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of God that this means that Christ came FROM GOD before anything else came into existence, after which, all other things came from the two of them.

    They believe that the title "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON" is a reference to Christ coming into existence before the rest of creation and then God and Jesus creating all other things.

    Some imply that Christ had no existence until He was BEGOTTEN, and teach that sometime in the deep distant past before the worlds were formed Christ was begotten. And after that, God sent Him to be born a man.

    In Acts 13, Saint Paul plainly declares that the "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON" is a reference to the resurrection.

    In plain language, he states that when God says " THOU ART MY SON, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE," that concerns the resurrection, and not anything else.

    The Scriptures plainly tells us that “begotten” refers to, the resurrection. Did Christ exist before He was begotten? Of course, since the begotten refers to the resurrection, we all know that Jesus existed before the resurrection. Some say, but doesn’t “ ONLY BEGOTTEN “ refer to Christ BORN as a man?" No, it doesn't refer to that at all, nor to anything before that. It refers to the resurrection.

    At the resurrection, He was declared the Son in power.

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