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Thread: Hezekaiah's healing..works or faith?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The faith heroes ? They had specific revelations of and from God, they were anointed with his Holy Spirit. They didn't have promises that were universally available by faith like we have. A lot of the miracles that took place were worked by such faith heroes but didn't involve the faith of the recipient, it was just raw power. The healing of Naaman, the commander of the Syrian army for instance, he decided to obey the instruction of the prophet simply because it was an easy thing to do and he had already travelled a long way to meet that prophet.
    I would consider Rahab pretty much an ignorant person about God. But yet she exercised faith in what they told her. She believed the 'preacher' in other words. Faith is faith.

    Hezekiah was healed by exercising faith through prayer. Plain and simple. His prayer moved God. Isaiah may have been the one to declare it, but it was Hezekiah's faith that moved God. Faith hasn't changed from the old to the new, only what we exercise that faith in specifically has changed.

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  3. #12
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    True..so you believe Hezekiah was healed by Isaiah's faith?

    Do you think there is a message in the fact that God chose the steps of Ahaz as the sign for his son?
    Are those steps even mentioned before that or did he perhaps naturally walk those steps at times ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I would consider Rahab pretty much an ignorant person about God. But yet she exercised faith in what they told her. She believed the 'preacher' in other words. Faith is faith.

    Hezekiah was healed by exercising faith through prayer. Plain and simple. His prayer moved God. Isaiah may have been the one to declare it, but it was Hezekiah's faith that moved God. Faith hasn't changed from the old to the new, only what we exercise that faith in specifically has changed.
    Rahab believed on accord of the miracles that God had performed during the Exodus :

    Joshua 2:8 Now before they lay down, she came up to them on the roof, 9 and said to the men: “I know that the Lord has given you the land, that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land are fainthearted because of you. 10 For we have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were on the other side of the Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. 11 And as soon as we heard these things, our hearts melted; neither did there remain any more courage in anyone because of you, for the Lord your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath. 12 Now therefore, I beg you, swear to me by the Lord, since I have shown you kindness, that you also will show kindness to my father’s house, and give me a true token, 13 and spare my father, my mother, my brothers, my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death.”

    Many others probably did too and believed like demons do (James 2) yet acted differently. Like many Israelites did when they worshipped the golden calf while Moses was on the mountain with God, even though God was present in the fire up there while they were doing that. Rahab did not only believe from a position of only having heard about those things but she also became a proselyte to the Jewish religion by effectively abandoning her identity as belonging to the people inhabiting the city of Jericho, taking her place among the Jews.

    There is no mention of Hezekiah exercising faith in God's will to heal him. To the contrary, Isaiah had just told him that God said to him that he was going to die. His prayer was a request for God to hear him, not a confirmation of his faith in God already having changed his mind. In addition, Hezekiah requests a sign that God is going to heal him which he wouldn't have bothered with if he had faith for healing. Maybe Hezekiah believed God after seeing the sign that he had requested but this didn't begin with Hezekiah having faith for healing. That is a matter of reading that into the passage.

    Rahab had a revelation of God's intention to have the Israelites take the land and had something to base her faith on. Hezekiah had nothing to base faith for healing on, he even had Isaiah's statement to the contrary. There were the promises concerning health and healing for those who kept the law but that was works based rather than faith based. God's statement that he was going to die effectively declared that he had not been found worthy of seeing the fulfillment of those promises. Everything beyond that was a matter of pleading with God, just like you might plead with God for his setting up a better president in your country with the next election but you cannot simply exercise faith for that president based on a promise in the Word that God will simply do that. The prayers of the saints might still move God to tip the scales so that that happens though.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    In general, faith can only operate where God's will is known. In particular, if someone asks God to do something that is not according to His will then he cannot find faith for that to happen. One cannot muster a neutral faith force capable of forcing God to alter His will making Him act according to one's faith instead.

    In the Old Testament we see many examples of people pleading with God and God deciding to issue grace to them rather than judgment, listening to their voice instead of to the voice of the Accuser declaring them unrighteous and worthy of judgment. Hezekiah's situation seems similar even though scripture doesn't explicitly state that Hezekiah was going to die prematurely as a form of judgment.

    Now that Satan has been defeated we are always in a position to pray according to righteousness so our situation is different. But fervent prayer still moves God to work on situations according to his power.

    James 5:16b The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
    17 Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years.
    18 Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.

    Jesus did not simply exercise faith for his resurrection, it started with his praying to God and being heard :

    Heb 5:7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

    That seems very similar to Hezekiah's prayer, asking God to do something that wasn't a simple matter of exercising faith according to God's revealed will.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Rahab believed on accord of the miracles that God had performed during the Exodus :

    Joshua 2:8 Now before they lay down, she came up to them on the roof, 9 and said to the men: "I know that the Lord has given you the land, that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land are fainthearted because of you. 10 For we have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were on the other side of the Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. 11 And as soon as we heard these things, our hearts melted; neither did there remain any more courage in anyone because of you, for the Lord your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath. 12 Now therefore, I beg you, swear to me by the Lord, since I have shown you kindness, that you also will show kindness to my father's house, and give me a true token, 13 and spare my father, my mother, my brothers, my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death."

    Many others probably did too and believed like demons do (James 2) yet acted differently. Like many Israelites did when they worshipped the golden calf while Moses was on the mountain with God, even though God was present in the fire up there while they were doing that. Rahab did not only believe from a position of only having heard about those things but she also became a proselyte to the Jewish religion by effectively abandoning her identity as belonging to the people inhabiting the city of Jericho, taking her place among the Jews.

    There is no mention of Hezekiah exercising faith in God's will to heal him. To the contrary, Isaiah had just told him that God said to him that he was going to die. His prayer was a request for God to hear him, not a confirmation of his faith in God already having changed his mind. In addition, Hezekiah requests a sign that God is going to heal him which he wouldn't have bothered with if he had faith for healing. Maybe Hezekiah believed God after seeing the sign that he had requested but this didn't begin with Hezekiah having faith for healing. That is a matter of reading that into the passage.

    Rahab had a revelation of God's intention to have the Israelites take the land and had something to base her faith on. Hezekiah had nothing to base faith for healing on, he even had Isaiah's statement to the contrary. There were the promises concerning health and healing for those who kept the law but that was works based rather than faith based. God's statement that he was going to die effectively declared that he had not been found worthy of seeing the fulfillment of those promises. Everything beyond that was a matter of pleading with God, just like you might plead with God for his setting up a better president in your country with the next election but you cannot simply exercise faith for that president based on a promise in the Word that God will simply do that. The prayers of the saints might still move God to tip the scales so that that happens though.
    First..WHY one has faith is not relevant..faith typically comes by hearing. Hezekiah, the son of one of the worst kings in Israel, at a young age chose an obviously different path so no doubt there was things he had heard as well. Rahab BELEVED...obviously Hezekiah BELIEVED God COULD heal him.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Are those steps even mentioned before that or did he perhaps naturally walk those steps at times ?
    I don't know that they were mentioned which makes it even more interesting that God chose THEM for the SIGN o Hezekiah..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    In general, faith can only operate where God's will is known. In particular, if someone asks God to do something that is not according to His will then he cannot find faith for that to happen. One cannot muster a neutral faith force capable of forcing God to alter His will making Him act according to one's faith instead.

    Faith IN GOD, yes...but not faith in general..again it seems to me that Hezekiah had enough faith to ASK. I also seems to me that God stated two truths..in Hezekiah's current spiritual and physical state, death was inevitable, but Hezekiah opted to reach out to God in desperation.

    In the Old Testament we see many examples of people pleading with God and God deciding to issue grace to them rather than judgment, listening to their voice instead of to the voice of the Accuser declaring them unrighteous and worthy of judgment. Hezekiah's situation seems similar even though scripture doesn't explicitly state that Hezekiah was going to die prematurely as a form of judgment. Examples

    Now that Satan has been defeated we are always in a position to pray according to righteousness so our situation is different. But fervent prayer still moves God to work on situations according to his power.

    James 5:16b The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
    17 Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years.
    18 Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.

    Jesus did not simply exercise faith for his resurrection, it started with his praying to God and being heard :

    Heb 5:7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

    That seems very similar to Hezekiah's prayer, asking God to do something that wasn't a simple matter of exercising faith according to God's revealed will.
    I believe it takes faith to ask...faith to align with God's will and desire...faith IS believing that He is AND that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    First..WHY one has faith is not relevant..faith typically comes by hearing. Hezekiah, the son of one of the worst kings in Israel, at a young age chose an obviously different path so no doubt there was things he had heard as well. Rahab BELEVED...obviously Hezekiah BELIEVED God COULD heal him.
    But not that he would heal him, that is why he pleaded with him to do so.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I believe it takes faith to ask...faith to align with God's will and desire...faith IS believing that He is AND that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.
    He obviously had some hope that God would listen to his plea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    He obviously had some hope that God would listen to his plea.
    I believe that without FAITH one can receive nothing from God. Hope can prompt asking...only FAITH receives..

    Again Hebrews 11:

    But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Odviously Hezekiah believe God IS and that if he diligently sought Him He would hear and answer..now he may not have had certainly that answer would be healing...but there is no doubt He had faith..faith that believed God is and faith that diligent seeking would produce something..

    It's interesting that God did not instantly heal him but gave him a three day waiting period and a sign...that sounds a lot like hat Jesus did when He sent the lepers to the priests...Jesus will take little faith and work with it when one believes He is and diligently seeks Him...that is God's character, to not quench a smoldering flax of faith..

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