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Thread: Anyone for a heresy?

  1. #1

    Anyone for a heresy?

    Why are there heresies? Well they damage the church don't they, so Satan loves to keep them around. And he does.

    Another problem is that training a child in the way he should go works both ways. If what we learn of Christianity when we are young (physically or as a new Christian) is wrong these things stay with us. And unless someone around us notices and cares enough to correct us we're going to continue on in our heresy teaching them to others unless something happens to change things.

    I was surprised to find that Wiki listed over 50 and I didn't think there were so many so I've listed some from elsewhere where the list was shorter. I've then added a bit more about the two that we see most often today.

    Most of these heresies were identified as heresy over 1,500 years ago so if the church had been on its toes no one should believe them these days. However, as Solomon said there's nothing new under the sun so we keep repeating the same sin over and over again.

    If you believe any of those listed below I hope you're totally surprised that the church identified them as heresy so long ago. Believing a heresy isn't wise even if we don't stone heretics these days. Also if you believe any of those listed below my apologies if this post offends, but as I said these were identified as heresies by church councils over 1000 years ago and it wasn't your fault you were taught them.


    • Adoptionism - God granted Jesus powers and then adopted him as a Son.
      • Adoptionism was condemned as a heresy by Pope Victor (A.D. 190-198).

    • Albigenses - Reincarnation and two gods: one good and other evil.
    • Apollinarianism - Jesus' divine will overshadowed and replaced the human.
      • Apollinarianism was condemned by the Second General Council at Constantinople in 381.

    • Arianism - Jesus was a lesser, created being.
    • Docetism - Jesus was divine but only seemed to be human.
      • Docetism was condemned at the Council of Chalcedon in 451.

    • Donatism - Validity of sacraments depends on character of the minister.
    • Eutychianism - Jesus finite human nature is swallowed up in His infinite divine nature.
      • He was condemned and deposed from the Monestary in A.D. 448 and then finally exiled at the counsil of Chalcedon in 451.

    • Gnosticism - Dualism of good and bad and special knowledge for salvation.
    • Kenosis - Jesus gave up some divine attributes while on earth.
    • Marcionism - An evil God of the O.T., good God of the N.T. 11, books in the Canon
      • Marcion was able to establish a church in Rome, espousing his false doctrines. It lasted for several centuries but eventually died out in the fourth century.

    • Modalism - God is one person in three modes.
    • Monarchianism - God is one person.
    • Monophysitism - Jesus had only one nature: divine.
      • It was condemned as heresy at the Sixth Ecumenical Council in 680-681.

    • Nestorianism - Jesus was two persons.
    • Patripassionism - The Father suffered on the cross.
    • Pelagianism - Man is unaffected by the fall and can keep all of God's laws.
      • Pelagius has been condemned by many councils throughout church history including the following:
        • Councils of Carthage (412, 416 and 418)
        • Council of Ephesus (431)
        • The Council of Orange (529)
        • Council of Trent (1546) Roman Catholic
        • 2nd Helvetic (1561/66) 8-9. (Swiss-German Reformed)
        • Augsburg Confession (1530) Art. 9, 18 (Lutheran)
        • Gallican Confession (1559) Art. 10 (French Reformed)
        • Belgic Confession (1561) Art. 15 (Lowlands, French/Dutch/German Reformed)
        • The Anglican Articles (1571), 9. (English)
        • Canons of Dort (1618-9), 3/4.2 (Dutch/German/French Reformed).


    • Semi-Pelagianism - Man and God cooperate to achieve man's salvation.
      • Semi-Pelagianism was condemned at the Council of Orange in 529.

    • Socinianism - Denial of the Trinity. Jesus is a deified man.
    • Subordinationism - The Son is lesser than the Father in essence and or attributes.
    • Tritheism - The Trinity is really three separate gods.




    The two that we seem most today are Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism

    Pelagianism: (this keeps coming around as indicated by the number of times its had to be condemned [see above])

    It is a heresy dealing with the nature of man. Pelagius taught that people had the ability to fulfill the commands of God by exercising the freedom of human will apart from the grace of God. In other words, a person's free will is totally capable of choosing God and/or to do good or bad without the aid of Divine intervention. Pelagianism teaches that man's nature is basically good. Thus it denies original sin, the doctrine that we have inherited a sinful nature from Adam. He said that Adam only hurt himself when he fell, and all of his descendants were not affected by Adam's sin. Pelagius taught that a person is born with the same purity and moral abilities as Adam was when he was first made by God. He taught that people can choose God by the exercise of their free will and rational thought. God's grace, then, is merely an aid to help individuals come to Him.

    Pelagianism fails to understand man's nature and weakness. We are by nature sinners (Eph. 2:3; Psalm 51:5). We all have sinned because sin entered the world through Adam: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned" (Rom. 5:12, NIV). Furthermore, Romans 3:10-12 says, "There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one." Therefore, we are unable to do God's will (Rom. 6:16; 7:14). We were affected by the fall of Adam--contrary to what Pelagius taught.

    Semi-Pelagianism:

    Semi-Pelagianism (advocated by Cassian at Marseilles, 5th Century) did not deny original sin and its effects upon the human soul and will; but, it taught that God and man cooperate to achieve man's salvation. This cooperation is not by human effort as in keeping the law but rather in the ability of a person to make a free will choice. The semi-Pelagian teaches that man can make the first move toward God by seeking God out of his own free will, and that man can cooperate with God's grace even to the keeping of his faith through human effort. This would mean that God responds to the initial effort of person, and that God's grace is not absolutely necessary to maintain faith.

    The problem is that this is no longer grace. Grace is the completely unmerited and freely given favor of God upon the sinner; but, if man is the one who first seeks God, then God is responding to the good effort of seeking him. This would mean that God is offering a proper response to the initial effort of man. This is not grace but what is due the person who chooses to believe in God apart from God's initial effort. The idea that God saw through time and choose to save those who He saw believe is another example of God responding to the efforts of man and so it too is no longer grace.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    By this definition, we have several Semi-Pelagians here. This would be the doctrine that says that a man or woman who is not healed has failed to achieve God's gift of healing because of some fault or sin in their lives.
    I actually think that Tri-theism is more common in Christianity today. That, after all, is what allows Christians to draw a separation between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Jesus is somehow a different God than the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Kenosis - Jesus gave up some divine attributes while on earth

    Why is that heresy....he gave up omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence to rely totally on the Holy Spirit

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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Kenosis - Jesus gave up some divine attributes while on earth

    Why is that heresy....he gave up omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence to rely totally on the Holy Spirit
    I thought that too. He emptied Himself.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    I thought that too. He emptied Himself.
    Ah oh we are heretics....get ready


  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Kenosis - Jesus gave up some divine attributes while on earth

    Why is that heresy....he gave up omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence to rely totally on the Holy Spirit
    The term kenosis comes from the Greek word kenoo, translated "emptied" in chapter 2 of Paul's letter to the Philippians:

    "Who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men." (Phil. 2:6-7 NASB)

    What has come to be called "Kenotic theology" attempts to understand theincarnation of the second person of the Trinity in light of the kenosis of Phillippians 2:7. Its aim is to solve some of the supposed paradoxes arising from Jesus having both a divine nature and a human nature. For example, how could an all knowingGod become a baby, how could God be tempted, or how could Jesus (being God) not know the time of His return?


    The danger comes when it is concluded that in the incarnation, the second person of the Trinity took on human nature and gave up or lost some of the divine attributes -- such that Jesus was not fully divine. The doctrine of the two natures of Christ (known as the hypostatic union) maintains that Jesus possessed a full undiminished human nature and a full undiminished divine nature, which were not combined or confused into some new nature but were added to each other forever (yet remaining distinct) in the one person Jesus Christ.


    The question regarding the kenosis comes to this -- What does it mean when Scripture says Christ "emptied" Himself? Did Jesus cease to be God during His earthly ministry? Certainly not, for deity cannot stop being deity or He would never have been true deity to begin with. Rather, the "emptying" is satisfactorily explained in the subsequent words of the verse, taking note of the two participles which grammatically modify and explain the verb: He emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. This emptying, in fact, was done as the man Christ Jesus, and neither of these ideas necessitates or implies the giving up of divine attributes.

    Christianity maintains that Jesus did not "empty" himself of any of his divinity in the incarnation, although it is true that his divine attributes were veiled. When the Kenosis theory concludes that Jesus is or was less than God (as has been the case in the past), it is regarded as heresy.

    source http://www.theopedia.com/kenosis

  8. #7
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    There are some obvious heresies which we need to understand and obviously reject

    In regard to kenosis who exactly has the final say to what is heresy because some of it is difference of opinion
    With some subjects you can find scripture pro and con and therefore not necessarily heretical

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    There are some obvious heresies which we need to understand and obviously reject

    In regard to kenosis who exactly has the final say to what is heresy because some of it is difference of opinion
    With some subjects you can find scripture pro and con and therefore not necessarily heretical
    One description is "belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine" which I guess I'm holding to, i.e. these things were decided on ages ago and are therefore orthodox.

    But another is "opinion profoundly at odds with what is generally accepted" and the trouble here is once those holding a heresy grow in number they claim that it is the non-heretic that is wrong. Hence Semi-Plagiarists have called me a heretic for my scriptural belief of the Biblical doctrines known as calvanism.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    What is a "semi-plagiarist"?

    Calvanism, is that short for "galvanized calvinism" ?

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    What is a "semi-plagiarist"?

    Calvanism, is that short for "galvanized calvinism" ?
    Spellchecker gone wild, bad correction of Semi-Pelagianist and a typo.

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