Thread: Interesting... OSAS

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

Does anyone say that that child is a robot because someone gave it physical life and is keeping it physically alive?

No, unless the child runs out in to the street in front of a car and gets squeshed like a bug and dies after the parents do all they can to teach the child to be careful and look both ways before crossing the street... the child obviously has free will to either obey or disobey.... and the child will reap the consequences of their actions!

This is the point... God cannot make mankind do anything, because the gifts and callings of God are without repentance and it's very obvious we have free will which is what seedtime and harvest is which is how the Kingdom of God operates.

He created us in His likness, so just like God... what we sow is what we reap and we decide what seeds (words, thoughts, actions, in-actions, etc, etc) we sow in our lives which determines what comes our way including whether we continue in our relationship with God, become luke warm, or backslide and turn our backs on Him... or not come to Him at all.

When some say God is doing everything for us... we would have to be "rubots" in the sense that we are not making our own decisions when scripture clearly demonstrates that we not only make our own decisions, but we are wholly responsible for the decisions that we make.

Interesting tangent you've taken us on FT.

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

No, unless the child runs out in to the street in front of a car and gets squeshed like a bug and dies

That initially read like you were saying that if the kid runs onto the road and is killed he IS a robot, but I think I get what you menan.

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

This is the point... God cannot make mankind do anything,

I'm not sure if there's anyone here who says He does.

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

it's very obvious we have free will

Well it's obvious we have a will but ask an addict how free his is. Try this for me, demonstrate your totally free will to choose what you do by not sinning in thought, word or deed in any form whatsoever for the next two weeks.

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

what we sow is what we reap and we decide what seeds (words, thoughts, actions, in-actions, etc, etc) we sow in our lives which determines what comes our way including whether we continue in our relationship with God, become luke warm, or backslide and turn our backs on Him

there's biological relationship and emotional relationship. One may not "get on" with their parents, may never speak to them, but biologically they are and always will be parent and child. That is unchangeable.

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

... or not come to Him at all.

You don't choose to be born FT.

Hey Farm Truck, what do you think of these three scriptures in relation to the human will?

1) Jesus tells us that, "everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin," (John 8:34).
2) The heart, until born again, is "deceitful above all things, and desperately sick" (Jeremiah 17:9).
3) God saw in man that "every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5).

Hey Farm Truck, what do you think of these three scriptures in relation to the human will?

1) Jesus tells us that, "everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin," (John 8:34).
2) The heart, until born again, is "deceitful above all things, and desperately sick" (Jeremiah 17:9).
3) God saw in man that "every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5).

Mankind should first get born again, and then LEARN what our covenant rights are IN Christ Jesus with Whom we are joint heirs with... meaning what He received being raised from the dead, we also have opportunity to receive being raised from the dead as well since we are raised up to sit with him in Heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6), and we have been delivered us from the power / authority of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son (Colossians 1:13), as well as if any man be IN CHRIST He is a new creation old things have passed away BEHOLD (L00K) all things are new and are of God (2 Corinthians 5:17).

These things are not automatic in spite of having been purchased for mankind thru the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If it were possible, God would automatically apply these things to each and every human being making universalism true... but, He would have to become a liar and ignore His own Word to do so.

I say this because the gifts and callings of God are without repentance (Romans 11:29) and His counsel (Word) does not change as it's impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18)... when God said in Genesis that man was created in His Own likeness (Genesis 1:27), and He predestined us to be like Jesus (Romans 8:29) Who IS God's Word in the flesh... this simply means that just like God... what man sows is what He reaps (Gal 6:7,8) which is what free will is and to say otherwise if to reject God's Word on the subject which is mocking God.

I wouldn't care to stand too close to anyone mocking God, claiming what He says in His Word is not true... ask lucifer how that worked out for him

Well it's obvious we have a will but ask an addict how free his is

Yes, the bleeding heart liberals (and others who do not believe God's Word) claim people cannot help themselves as this plays in to their narrative that they should be controlling the lives of others by making others dependent upon them so they'll vote liberal so liberals can stay in power and bring forth the one world religion / government which is all satanic and foretold by the Lord.... it's being put together now.

I've been an addict, so yes I know exactly what it's like to believe the lie that "I just can't help myself"

Drunkeness (intoxication) is one of the sins of the flesh that Christians cannot live in as a lifestyle and expect to go to Heaven:

Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Try this for me, demonstrate your totally free will to choose what you do by not sinning in thought, word or deed in any form whatsoever for the next two weeks.

Ah, hello... the Word teaches us to not do any of these things which is accomplished by yielding to the Holy Spirit based on the written Word. Those that practice sin need to confess their sin and forsake it so the Lord is able to cleanse them. (Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9)

there's biological relationship and emotional relationship. One may not "get on" with their parents, may never speak to them, but biologically they are and always will be parent and child. That is unchangeable.

Yes, and I'm born again in the likeness of Jesus Christ so I'm no longer a debtor to the flesh... like some are that are still carnal minded thinking after the flesh and our lives here on Club Earth.

You don't choose to be born FT.

I'm referring to being born again and walking with the Lord... some choose to not come to the Lord and become a child of God and instead choose to reject God which lands them in hell.

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

Hey Farm Truck, what do you think of these three scriptures in relation to the human will?

1) Jesus tells us that, "everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin," (John 8:34).
2) The heart, until born again, is "deceitful above all things, and desperately sick" (Jeremiah 17:9).
3) God saw in man that "every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5).

Do you mind if I respond?

1..just like debt when we sin it contaminates all our life...that 'slavery' is more of a bondservant...choice...with Christ no one is bound unless they choose to be.
2..Before being born again, yes they are condemned already...
3..Again the condition of fallen man before Christ.

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

Where did this "we have no control" "we are robots" garbage (would have liked to use worse) come from in the above FT?

If one on the mods does something for you, e.g. edits your post to correct your spelling, does that make you their robot?

Of course not. So how is God saving us and ensuring that we stay saved make us one?

Interesting analogy of the mods editing a post but seems like apples and oranges..If God saves us against our will or without giving us a choice the term robot is practical...no options, no choice. Yes the mod can as the authority alter posts but he has the right to choose to no longer be a part of the forum. You say that God can save us and give us no choice to leave..the correct analogy for the forum would be they can alte our posts and we have no choice but to keep posting and keep letting them.

God saving us and ensuring we stay saved has demonstrated that regardless of our will and choices, He has predetermined the outcome..much like a football game where regardless of the score at the end of the game the NFL has already determined the winning team.

Or using the forum analogy no matter what we post at the end of the discussion the mods will have determined the conclusion....

Originally Posted by Femme*

it also is amusing to see the "it means we don't have any responsibility" argument.

NO one ever, E.V.E.R. claims that. We ALL must accept the responsibility for our own sin.

You have one, certainly, but within the confines of the safe haven of OSAS meaning that at the end of the day whether you were obedient or not you still win the game...

Y'all can go ahead and lose your salvation if you want, but as for me, I'm staying securely saved for eternity. Not my doing...all HIS.

Originally Posted by Bookman

Y'all can go ahead and lose your salvation if you want, but as for me, I'm staying securely saved for eternity. Not my doing...all HIS.

That's just cause you have sense enough not to be drawn away of your own lust and enticed into sin and then try to claim you are free to do sin, trying to either say it is not sin, and/or claiming the grace of God covers willful, knowing sin which God forbids (Romans 6:15)

James 1:14,15
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 1:21,22
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

If we are to truly walk in Love, we would be warning people everywhere about the false grace, false eternal security, OSAS teaching that satan has planted in the church... all because he was able to get people to quit going by God's written Word and start having entertainment at church with the focus on making people feel good instead of teaching them God's Word which is what making disciples is.

But, many Christians have the attitude that it doesn't really matter cause after all Jesus tasted of death for all men, right? Surely this simply means that we're all saved and there's never ending diamonds in the sky in the sweet by and by... and they are deceived!

The purpose of Jesus doing what He did was for us to turn away from darkness and actually walk with God... no walkie with God, not Heaven!

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Don'tcha think it would be a good idea to search the scriptures and find out what the Lord's definition of "overcome" is???

I had one lady tell me "no, Jesus is not blotting any Christian's name out of the book of life"... either she's a liar, or Jesus is a liar! Not sure 'bout everyone else but, I'm not going to be calling Jesus a liar!

So, those that do not overcome... will not go to Heaven.... this is some serious stuff and apparently some folks have to learn the hard way while others don't care enough about people to warn them of satan's crown jewel deception which is providing people with a form of godliness but denying the true power.