Thread: Jeremiah 29:11 and the Health and Wealth Gospel

Problem is... God changes not and under the New Testament He does the following:

thoughts of peace towards us
We pray and God listens to us
Seek God and we shall find him
God delivering us from bondage

Hopefully nobody is saying what can be found in Jeremiah 29:11-14 is not also applicable to us under the New Testament... because that would be a lie.

Many OT scriptures can be found to be applicable to Christians under the NT based on the fact that God changes not, due to Him being no respector of persons, and the blessings of Abraham are available unto believers today thru Jesus Christ mentioned in Galatians 3:14

We must always remember that we are now under a better covenant based on better promises because of Jesus.

The Cross changes everything!

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

Hopefully nobody is saying what can be found in (the whole of) Jeremiah is not also applicable to us under the New Testament... because that would be a lie.

Unless you take a verse IN FULL CONTEXT FT then you risk lying. Jeremiah 29:11-14 is a good example of people (perhaps unintentionally) doing that, but as with all things once their error has been pointed out to them they have no excuse.

You say "God changes not" then say He's changed because now He (apparently) ignores the context in which He said things.

No, I never said God changes... I'm talking about God being good and desiring to bless His people in the situation in Jeremiah AND He desires to do the same for His faithful now under the New Testament.

It sounds like the guy that wrote the article is so focused on something being taken out of context that he forgot to go read the New Testament to see if what God said in Jeremiah 29:11-14 is also applicable to His people today.

That's the trouble with heresy hunters is they are usually in the ditch on the other side claiming God does not desire good things for us today and some day... someday... someday, when we get to Heaven He'll provide good things for His people.

The Lord desires to do that now, but some in the ministry make an idol out of material wealth and use the ministry as a way to become rich and famous which is in the ditch on the other side.

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

It sounds like the guy that wrote the article is so focused on something being taken out of context that he forgot to go read the New Testament to see if what God said in Jeremiah 29:11-14 is also applicable to His people today.

It sounds like you TOTALLY missed this sentence "even though it was written to a people under God’s judgment long ago, there is much believers today can take from this ... It is difficult to find a more wonderful promise anywhere in Scripture that expresses the tender compassion of Yahweh toward these exiles and setting before them, at last, a real reason for optimism and expectation"

(You did read it didn't you?)

And did you read this "It is rightly trusted as a very precious word of assurance from God. But do we take note of its context? This is a surprising word of hope to a people who stood under God’s judgment. It is not a glib happy feeling: ‘God’s going to be nice to us all, me especially’ (we should note that the ‘you’ is plural, not individual – this is primarily a promise to the people as a whole). It is rather the robust affirmation that even in and through the fires of judgment there can be hope in the grace and goodness of God. That is God’s ultimate plan and purpose. The promise stands firm, but it does not preclude or neutralise judgment. Rather it presupposes but transcends judgment."

It's a word written to people under judgement. You think you can escape that by ignoring it?

You did read it didn't you?

No. I usually skip reading articles by heresy hunters.

I'd be willing to bet the guy that wrote this article does not believe God heals today, and Christians should only have enough to barely get by. Hopefully that's not the case. If it is, he doesn't know the Lord very well, or His Book.

You think you can escape that by ignoring it?

LoL... where did I ever say there is no judgement under the NT??? I didn't.

I'm not a subscriber to the false grace teaching that turns the Grace of our Lord into lasciviousness.

Galatians 6:7,8 is very quite clear that whatever we sow is what we reap and if we sow to the flesh we shall reap corruption.

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

No. I usually skip reading articles by heresy hunters.

Well I guess that's another benefit of being a WoF person (well I'm guessing you are), being able to speak about things you haven't read "by faith".

Nuff said.

Jesus was word of faith... Paul was word of faith.... it is in fact scriptural.

What's not scriptural is denying what the Lord said and what the Lord said thru Paul.

And, using it to enrich yourself in ministry is not scriptural either so no, I do not "follow" big time TV preachers... nor do I pay attention to people who don't know God's Word and try to tell me that word of faith is wrong when the Word clearly teaches that it is in fact of the Lord.

Yeah, I scanned the article for a few moments without reading the entire thing because it comes across as being an attack on God's desire to be good to His people under the New Covenant... and that's just as bad as TV preachers gettin rich and profiting off of ministry.

I guess some folk think God wants them to be broke, busted, and disgusted

Just how does "This passage, like the entire book of Jeremiah, is filled with the language of repentance. It is only when the people turn back to God and seek him afresh that the promise of verse 11 holds true. Yet how many Christian teachers today claim this verse for themselves and their followers, yet never say a word about repentance, and never say a word about the context of this verse: the just judgment of God on a rebellious and sinful people."

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

come across as being an attack on God's desire to be good to His people under the New Covenant

?

yet never say a word about repentance

I'm not paying any attention to any preachers that teaches that 1 John 1:9 is not for us today, and that "all our future sins are forgiven" as to never need to talk about repentance.

Of course TV preaches don't care about context... they be hunting snippets of scripture that sound good that fits into their message of making everyone feel good so they can sell more books and rake in more offerings.

But, by the same token... there are many so-called "discernment ministries" (as though God really mean to have 6 fold ministry instead of just 5) that teach from the other ditch that God doesn't heal (sickness is a blessing), He wants us broke (being poor is a blessing), and on and on.

I'm not in agreement with either ditch

The title itself is an attack on God's will for His people based on what Jesus paid for us to have ... "Jeremiah 29:11 and the Health and Wealth Gospel"... as though anybody teaching we should be healed and living decently in this world is sinful.

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

The title itself is an attack on God's will for His people based on what Jesus paid for us to have ... "Jeremiah 29:11 and the Health and Wealth Gospel"... as though anybody teaching we should be healed and living decently in this world is sinful.

You should actually read things FT then you may have noticed this.

"The positive confession teachers and the health and wealth gospellers just want to accentuate the positive and ignore the other vital – if not painful – truths of Scripture: the wrath of God, sin, divine holiness, and the need for repentance".

Here's some words on what life is like. If a preacher doesn't preach them then he is deceiving his flock:

"the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials"
"serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials that happened"
"Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,"
"In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials"
"Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation"
"saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God"
"when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away"
"In the world you will have tribulation"
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?"
"if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable"

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

as though anybody teaching we should be healed and living decently in this world is sinful.

There's not much said post-Gospels on healing FT, certainly not as much as is said about suffering. Maybe a lot of it is wishful thinking?

"if anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them ... confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed" and
"by his wounds you have been healed"