Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: Is Satan the god of the old testament?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Biblemouse View Post
    If we accept God is sovereign, it is therefore God allowing it.

    Job 1 and particularly verse 6.

    Satan is not God's adversary he is our adversary within the domain of Omniscient Omnipresent God.

    What the Bible says about Satan's power Limited by God
    The Bible refers to two seperate kingdoms that are opposed to each other (Matthew 12:22-30; Luke 11:14-23; Colossians 1:12-14). God's kingdom is the kingdom of light, love and liberty while Satan's kingdom is the kingdom of death, defeat and destruction. The Bible makes it clear that one kingdom has nothing to do with the other but are opposed to one another (2 Cor. 6:14-15). Therefore, Satan is an adversary to God.

    In Genesis 3 Satan outright attacks God's character. He does the same in Job 1. In Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 we find him BLASPHEMING God. These two are not friends nor is Satan some unwilling servant of God. They are enemies, though Satan is a DEFEATED enemy:

    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)

    Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil (Hebrews 2:14)

    And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. (Colossians 2:15)

    Not sure how anyone can read these and limit Satan's adversarial role to mankind alone.
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to victoryword For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (04-13-2021)

  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Well, without Adam actually allowing it.



    Where is that verse? And God 'allowing' is a whole subject in itself about what that actually means, and connected to my first answer above. I'll let VW, either one of them, take that up with you.
    Good catch.

    One definitely has to be alert to determine what a person means by "allow" or "permit" when it comes to God. There are some Calvinists that use both words but they are usually just trying to soften their false teaching on predestination. They want God the sovereign direct cause of all events while trying to not make Him the sovereign direct cause of all events. If that sounds confusing then welcome to the Calvinistic understanding of "allow" and "permit". The Bible easily refutes such a warped view of God:

    For these nations that you are about to take listen to those who do witchcraft and use secret ways. But the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so. (Deut. 18:14; New Life Version)

    Yet, if we read Israel's history, they did the very thing God did not "allow" them to do (engage in witchcraft and other forms of idolatry). The BIBLICAL understanding of permission, which is outlined in detail in many of my books (The "Permissive Sense" being my most popular book) shows us that God's "permission" is not "causation" but in most cases, allowing us what we want (removing all restraint He once held) along with the consequences that come with rebellious behavior. Completely different from the Calvinist soft predestination view.
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to victoryword For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (04-13-2021), John (03-11-2021)

  5. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    The Bible refers to two seperate kingdoms that are opposed to each other (Matthew 12:22-30; Luke 11:14-23; Colossians 1:12-14). God's kingdom is the kingdom of light, love and liberty while Satan's kingdom is the kingdom of death, defeat and destruction. The Bible makes it clear that one kingdom has nothing to do with the other but are opposed to one another (2 Cor. 6:14-15). Therefore, Satan is an adversary to God.

    In Genesis 3 Satan outright attacks God's character. He does the same in Job 1. In Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 we find him BLASPHEMING God. These two are not friends nor is Satan some unwilling servant of God. They are enemies, though Satan is a DEFEATED enemy:
    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)

    Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil (Hebrews 2:14)

    And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. (Colossians 2:15)

    Not sure how anyone can read these and limit Satan's adversarial role to mankind alone.
    Very easily done. Unless one wishes to make a case for God being a sovereign Masochist.
    "Sometimes the devil allows people to live a life free of trouble because he doesn't want people turning to God. Their sin is like a jail cell, except it is all nice and comfy and there doesn't seem to be any reason to leave. The door's wide open. Till one day time runs out and the door slams shut and suddenly it's too late to get out."
    (Lenore Banks ~ "God's Not Dead")

  6. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    I understand the frustration of people replying without watching a video. On a discussion forum people usually only want to discuss what is directly in the OP. Therefore, the title and summary in your OP was enough to trigger our responses.

    Now, I can see that your mind is made up and debate would be a waste of time. But here is a (somewhat) quick response. First, you appeal only to Job to support your view but Scripture must interpret itself. Jesus said that when Satan lies he speaks of his own (John 8:44). God does not need to give satan "permission" to lie. In Ezekiel 28 God says iniquity was FOUND (discovered) in Satan. Again, no "permission" involved.

    Even in Job 1 itself God asks Satan where he has been and Satan says that he has been to and fro throughout the earth. If Satan needed God's permission then why would God need to ask? Only concerning the attacks on Job in particular did Satan need God to "allow" him due to there being a protective hedge around Job. Not everyone on earth has God's protective hedge, therefore, Satan does not need God's "permission" to attack everyone. Furthermore, Satan did not consult God on the specifics of each attack.

    Satan is "lord" of the earth only because mankind has abdicated his delegated authority and MEN have allowed Satan to reign through deception (2 Cor. 4:4; Rev. 12:9-11). This is NOT God's doing but men. God gave men authority and MAN gave it to Satan (Gen. 1:27-28; Psalm 8; Luke 4). Jesus gave us that authority back (Luke 10:17-20).
    There's at least two fallacies in that reply. Since you've prejudged me because something has triggered that in you, and you haven't watched the video, you've no idea what is being asked nor invited with kindness to share as per opinions of the video.

    We can call it quits between you and myself in this thread. Your pride is astounding.
    "Sometimes the devil allows people to live a life free of trouble because he doesn't want people turning to God. Their sin is like a jail cell, except it is all nice and comfy and there doesn't seem to be any reason to leave. The door's wide open. Till one day time runs out and the door slams shut and suddenly it's too late to get out."
    (Lenore Banks ~ "God's Not Dead")

  7. #15
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Biblemouse View Post
    There's at least two fallacies in that reply. Since you've prejudged me because something has triggered that in you, and you haven't watched the video, you've no idea what is being asked nor invited with kindness to share as per opinions of the video.

    We can call it quits between you and myself in this thread. Your pride is astounding.

    Where is your kindness?

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Cardinal TT For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (04-13-2021)

  9. #16
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,824
    Thanked: 7521
    Quote Originally Posted by Biblemouse View Post
    There's at least two fallacies in that reply. Since you've prejudged me because something has triggered that in you, and you haven't watched the video, you've no idea what is being asked nor invited with kindness to share as per opinions of the video.

    We can call it quits between you and myself in this thread. Your pride is astounding.
    If you're going to float "Is Satan the god of the old testament", you better come up with something better than ad hominem ploys.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (04-13-2021)

  11. #17
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    8,050
    Thanked: 6090
    Quote Originally Posted by Biblemouse View Post
    There's at least two fallacies in that reply. Since you've prejudged me because something has triggered that in you, and you haven't watched the video, you've no idea what is being asked nor invited with kindness to share as per opinions of the video.

    We can call it quits between you and myself in this thread. Your pride is astounding.
    That's now TWO long term members who you've taken aim at with insults.

    You haven't been here long enough to know any of us.

    VW is one of the best in depth Bible teachers I know.

    I agree with Cardinal TT. Where is your kindness?

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to A.J. For This Useful Post:

    Cardinal TT (03-12-2021), curly sue (03-12-2021), Ezekiel 33 (04-13-2021), Smitty (03-13-2021)

  13. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    That's now TWO long term members who you've taken aim at with insults.

    You haven't been here long enough to know any of us.

    VW is one of the best in depth Bible teachers I know.

    I agree with Cardinal TT. Where is your kindness?

    Where's yours? When you agree with someone who mocks a member of the Catholic faith in their profile picture and demonstrates no kindness whatever.

    More and more excuses to not actually do what the OP invited. Kindly discuss the OP content after of course watching the video.

    You all would rather be uninformed of the OP content while attacking me. And you ask where is my kindness?
    "Sometimes the devil allows people to live a life free of trouble because he doesn't want people turning to God. Their sin is like a jail cell, except it is all nice and comfy and there doesn't seem to be any reason to leave. The door's wide open. Till one day time runs out and the door slams shut and suddenly it's too late to get out."
    (Lenore Banks ~ "God's Not Dead")

  14. #19
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,824
    Thanked: 7521
    Quote Originally Posted by Biblemouse View Post

    More and more excuses to not actually do what the OP invited. Kindly discuss the OP content after of course watching the video.
    That's a hard pull BM, a demand to watch a video. If we were to watch every video we were asked to watch I'm afraid there wouldn't be much time for anything else.

    We don't need no steenkin video.

    Some here have already encountered the thesis you referred to in the video and gave replies based on their understanding of the Word of God. Thanks VW!

  15. #20
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Biblemouse View Post
    Where's yours? When you agree with someone who mocks a member of the Catholic faith in their profile picture and demonstrates no kindness whatever.

    Glad you brought that up and goes to prove you are speaking rashly and ignorantly with no wisdom
    My profile pic as members can attest is Anglican not Catholic and my initial name was Archbishop for years - proving you reacted and used Catholicism to make a personal attack

    You will respond by saying I am mocking the leader of the Anglican faith and while true, due to some left leaning positions of the Archbishop nonetheless shows that you judge rashly

    BTW does this mean I have contempt and hate for all 85 million worldwide Anglicans????
    Last edited by Cardinal TT; 03-13-2021 at 12:15 AM.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Has your Toyota Prius warranty expired? Get a fast online quote from CarWarrantyUS today. Enjoy the open road and leave the repairs to us.