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Thread: Demonology

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post

    There are churches and Christians that don't believe these things happen, some have stopped believing in a literal devil
    Yep.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Yeah, it makes no sense to me that fallen angels would be demons. They've never had a natural body, so why would they try to posses one? The giants make no sense either in that those were alive during this present earth. When they died their souls would have done the same as other persons' souls did, go to hell or paradise. The pre-Adamite thing is the only thing that logically makes sense to me. But ultimately it's all speculation for the most part. But Dake does offer what he considers scriptural proof with lots of scriptures and how he interprets them.
    Demons don't seem to appear to be mentioned in scripture until Jesus arrives on the scene.

    If in fact they were from the nephilim, then their souls aren't from a heavenly source, perhaps? They cried out to Jesus not to punish them before their time. What was that all about?

    It is a very interesting subject for sure.

    What would happen if a human woman were impregnated by a fallen angel? Does the spirit of that offspring come from the fallen angel?
    It is an area which scripture really doesn't address. The best we can do is make educated guesses from what we do read in scripture.

    It will be one of the great mysteries that we will understand in the next world perhaps.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I agree that angels are far more powerful than demons. The main reason why Lucifer is more powerful than the other fallen angels is that he is the leader, the one who seduced the others into becoming evil and thereby brought them in under his domain and authority. According to Rev 12, Satan brought down a third of the angels of heaven which means that there are twice as many angels that follow God. We don't know if most of those are stationed aorund the Earth but they counter the forces of evil, mainly the fallen angels that Satan brought here. There is nothing that suggests that any of them multiply so their number is fixed. How many angels are there ? We don't know.

    The math is interesting here. At the time of king Saul the world population was about 40 million. At the time of Jesus, about 200 million. By now, almost 8 billion. Are there enough angels to supply every human being with a designated guardian angel ? Probably not.

    What about the number of demons ? There is nothing that suggests that they multiply either. So there has to be fewer demons per human being now than there were for instance at the time of Jesus. The back-and-forth battle between light and darkness might be largely a matter of the clashes between God's angels and Satan's angels and both numbers are fixed. But when talking about human beings having demons attached to them then the number of demons in the world is fixed and also quite exhaustible. This holds irrespective of which origin theory for demons that one leans towards. Can the origin theory account for the number of demons that seems to be around today ? That depends on our perceptions concerning the number of demons that are attached to human beings at the moment. So I'm going to pose the following question, and I hope that all posters give it some thought and then reply :

    What percentage of human beings do you think currently has at least one demon attached to them ?

    My guess is about 10 percent, which I believe to be relatively conservative. Since some of them have more than one demon, that would bring the total number of demons attached to human beings to around 1 billion. Do the origin theories account for this number ? The "dead giants" theory certainly does not.
    A more important question might be "How many people can 1 demon influence/demonize at one time?"

    I believe that they demonize a lot of people without being exposed until someone like bro Hayes comes along and they have an encounter.

    He does talk about it taking some time to expel some, especially if they have been attached for a long time.

    I know that the last ones I cast out probably took an hour or so before they were all gone. But I also believe that they had been with this person for probably 50 years.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Good teaching by Hagin about demons and the demonic real

    There are churches and Christians that don't believe these things happen, some have stopped believing in a literal devil
    So true! A huge part of the faction persecuting Torben Sondergaard was the church.

    I know folks in full gospel churches who tremble at the mention of demons. This is sad when Jesus told us to deal with them.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    A more important question might be "How many people can 1 demon influence/demonize at one time?"

    I believe that they demonize a lot of people without being exposed until someone like bro Hayes comes along and they have an encounter.

    He does talk about it taking some time to expel some, especially if they have been attached for a long time.

    I know that the last ones I cast out probably took an hour or so before they were all gone. But I also believe that they had been with this person for probably 50 years.
    How many people one demon can attach itself to at the same time ? According to scripture, exactly one :

    Luke 11:24 When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’

    Once a demon leaves a person then it goes through dry places and finds no rest - precisely because it's now attached to noone. The situation would be very different if the demon had still been attached to 1,2,5 or 500 other people besides the one it just left.

    I'm sure that one demon can influence a number of people at the same time, even without being attached to any of them. But that is not what we are discussing.

    So for 1 billion people to have demons attached to them it takes at least 1 billion demons.

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  7. #26
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Demons don't seem to appear to be mentioned in scripture until Jesus arrives on the scene.

    If in fact they were from the nephilim, then their souls aren't from a heavenly source, perhaps? They cried out to Jesus not to punish them before their time. What was that all about?

    It is a very interesting subject for sure.

    What would happen if a human woman were impregnated by a fallen angel? Does the spirit of that offspring come from the fallen angel?
    It is an area which scripture really doesn't address. The best we can do is make educated guesses from what we do read in scripture.

    It will be one of the great mysteries that we will understand in the next world perhaps.
    1 Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord terrorized him. 15 Saul’s servants then said to him, “Behold now, an evil spirit from God is terrorizing you. 16 Let our lord now command your servants who are before you. Let them seek a man who is a skillful player on the harp; and it shall come about when the evil spirit from God is on you, that he shall play the harp with his hand, and you will be well.” 17 So Saul said to his servants, “Provide for me now a man who can play well and bring him to me.” 18 Then one of the young men said, “Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite who is a skillful musician, a mighty man of valor, a warrior, one prudent in speech, and a handsome man; and the Lord is with him.” 19 So Saul sent messengers to Jesse and said, “Send me your son David who is with the flock.” 20 Jesse took a donkey loaded with bread and a jug of wine and a young goat, and sent them to Saul by David his son. 21 Then David came to Saul and [e]attended him; and [f]Saul loved him greatly, and he became his armor bearer. 22 Saul sent to Jesse, saying, “Let David now stand before me, for he has found favor in my sight.” 23 So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him.

    The same continues in chapters 18 and 19.

    2 Chron 18:18 Micaiah said, “Therefore, hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing on His right and on His left. 19 The Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab king of Israel to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said this while another said that. 20 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’ And the Lord said to him, ‘How?’ 21 He said, ‘I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then He said, ‘You are to entice him and prevail also. Go and do so.’ 22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of these your prophets, for the Lord has proclaimed disaster against you.”

    The law speaks against spiritists :

    Deut 18:10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you.

    Per verse 11 a spiritist is not the same as a medium or one who calls up the dead.

    Job lived at roughly the time of Abraham, maybe even before. One of his friends (who were all rebuked by God later) spoke of a spirit :

    Job 4:12 “Now a word was brought to me stealthily,
    And my ear received a whisper of it.
    13 “Amid disquieting thoughts from the visions of the night,
    When deep sleep falls on men,
    14 Dread came upon me, and trembling,
    And made all my bones shake.

    15 “Then a spirit passed by my face;
    The hair of my flesh bristled up.
    16 “It stood still, but I could not discern its appearance;
    A form was before my eyes;
    There was silence, then I heard a voice:
    17 ‘Can mankind be just before God?
    Can a man be pure before his Maker?
    18 ‘He puts no trust even in His servants;
    And against His angels He charges error.
    19 ‘How much more those who dwell in houses of clay,
    Whose foundation is in the dust,
    Who are crushed before the moth!
    20 ‘Between morning and evening they are broken in pieces;
    Unobserved, they perish forever.
    21 ‘Is not their tent-cord plucked up within them?
    They die, yet without wisdom.’

    Eliphaz' experience is one of dread and the spirit is one that accuses men of unrighteousness. It's not the Spirit of God, nor is it an angel since it refers to "his angels".

    There are four OT entries for "demons" in the NKJV :

    https://www.biblegateway.com/quickse...begin=1&end=46

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  9. #27
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Good point Colonel. I didn't recall any places where the actual word "demon" was used.

    It appears that those passages use 3 different words. The passage from 1 Samuel is a different word than the others.

    But at what point in time did these things happen? That is what we should look at. Was it after Genesis 6? It was, so then it could be possible that some demons do come from these ungodly creations. There were whole tribes of them.

    Interesting stuff for sure!

  10. #28
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Good point Colonel. I didn't recall any places where the actual word "demon" was used.

    It appears that those passages use 3 different words. The passage from 1 Samuel is a different word than the others.

    But at what point in time did these things happen? That is what we should look at. Was it after Genesis 6? It was, so then it could be possible that some demons do come from these ungodly creations. There were whole tribes of them.

    Interesting stuff for sure!
    I don't think there's a mention of demons before Genesis 6. That doesn't prove much since there's only five chapters to go by. Only two if we disregard the garden of Eden. I know that later Jewish works have theorized that demons are the spirits of dead giants but I'd expect the old testament itself to hint at it for that theory to have any merit. Eliphaz should have said "a Nephilim spirit terrified me in the night" or something like that. Since their origin is never specified we are left with speculating on it and some speculations fit the available facts better than others.

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  12. #29
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    This is part 4. I am about half way through it. Good stuff. I like his style of teaching.

    He gives a testimony of how God used him to bring Rock Hudson to repentance on his death bed. He tells how Rock became demonized with a homosexual spirit at the age of 8. Good stuff.



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    His daughter is a fireball too!


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